to consider UKIP racist?

[fidelineish]

Tell me, please.

Fide there are lots of considerations to make when voting.

Well exactly peggy

Ok Amber -
Anyone who isn't a racist/xenophobe/bigot and has at least a basic level of intelligence, can see why UKIP are 'bad'.

I am certainly not racist - hard to prove on a forum but I saw racism as I grew up and cannot abide it

Not xenophobic - visit, work with, have friends from around the world.

Not bigoted - "unreasonable" is just as subjective as "wrong"

Have a BEng(Hons) and am lucky to be blessed with common sense as well.

BUT I cannot see why UKIP is "bad":

I want UK to control its borders - I have no problem with immigration - I just want to control it and for us to welcome people from all over the world who have the skills our country needs.

Someone further up the thread mentions the ukip policies keep changing - at least they have policies - go and look at labours web site to see if you can find their education policy - they don't have one yet, it's still being written... Really? The supposed second largest party in the uk don't know what they are going to do with education with less than a yr to go before a general election.

Lib dems have practically broken every manifesto promise they made last year - how credible does that make them to vote for?

Sorry didn't mean to say last yr about lib dems manifesto promises.

Is anyone else hearing a growing hum of paranoia in here?

No it seems as though there is a lot of confirmation bias going on, I think Caruthers has been asking for any policies which define the party or all it's followers as racist yet either everyone is ignoring that point or cannot find anything.

Yes ukip are batshit crazy, but the topic of discussion is are ukip racist?

Ukip as a party racist? No

Attracts the racists/homophobes/misogynistic(voters and candidates) then I would agree

The issue is that it they have brought sensitive topics to the forefront (which even labour will be addressing in their manifesto, does that make them racist?) previously anyone addressing these issues would have been shouted down as daily mail/sun reader, thick/racist(still seems the case tbh)
To ignore ukip or belittle them is going to be worse in the long run(IMO)

BUT I cannot see why UKIP is "bad"

Well, I object to UKIP's past policies on global warming, homeopathy, disability benefits and employment rights.

Well objecting Tilly does not make it bad - it is just not your choice.

I've had a look at their website.

May I ask a genuine question please?

How are UKIP racist when they want to have a points based immigration system open to all countries, races etc

Whereas the others want total free movement ONLY amongst European citizens, bugger the rest.

Is it just me or are UKIP the only ones that are not distinguishing who is welcome by what their race/nationality is but by what they can offer?

Labour has just the one senior member who was a member of a group that had PIE as an affiliate member, I thought?

If peggy is referring to the Council for Civil Liberties situation in the 70s, she has positted it in a distinctly srange way.

Is it just me or are UKIP the only ones that are not distinguishing who is welcome by what their race/nationality is but by what they can offer?

You're quite right OhMrGove.

The Conservatives have reduced immigration from non-EU countries but have to accept uncontrolled immigration from EU countries.

UKIP is basing the right of residency on what skills that immigrant can offer. Just as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA...... most sensible countries do.

Why import a bus driver while a UK citizen who could be trained to be a bus driver, remains on benefits, paid for by the UK tax payer?

Barking.

UKIP want a points based system, similar to that of Australia and Canada - am I to assume that people would consider both those countries to be racist?

Why are people not intelligent enough to have a sensible conversation about subjects such as immigration, without throwing in insults nd accusing people of being racist?

I don't vote UKIP, but I do agree with some of their policies. We have lots of fantastic, skilled people in the UK who need work and only where we have skills gaps, should we need to look to other countries. We should not be allowing people to come here from other EU countries, who have never paid tax and contributed to be able to claim any sort of benefits. Does that make me racist? If you ask my black, Muslim and Sikh friends, they will tell you no, I am not. Most of my friends hold similar opinions, that we need a sensible policy on immigration and not be afraid to discuss the issue for fear of being accused of being racist.

I fully believe that if we did have sensible discussions about this topic, UKIP would not even exist and it would diminish the support for the likes of the BNP.

It's a grey area, perhaps. I think their proposal that disability benefits should be the same as JSA, as being disabled apparently doesn't incur additional costs, was bad. Perhaps they would think the same of my view?

And no, I don't receive DLA myself.

Australia isn't free from racism at all

and we ALREADY have that system for none EU immigrants

Oh yay I'm right AND I only just re-registered after the recent kerfuffle. MNHQ are clearly racists.

gordy - we do have a system for non EU immigrants - BUT it is severly curtailed beacuase we cannot allow them in as we try and cope with the uncontrolled EU influx.
If we used the syatem for all immigrants surely it would be better.
The right people for the country would be allowed in.

Australia isn't free from racism at all

Nobody said it is.

But there again you will never remove racial bias from any country.

The point the poster was making is that their immigration policy doesn't make them racist or xenophobic.

Which it doesn't.

I didn't say that Australia was free from racism, but we don't generally accuse countries like Australia of wholesale racism, just because they have a points based system.

The points based system was tightened up, under the coalition government in the UK, which made no sense to me. We still do have certain skills shortages and need to open these up to great staff from all over the world. What we don't need is more un-skilled people from the EU coming into the UK, when we have enough people here already fighting for those jobs.

fine as long as you accept all the Brits working in the EU back as well

Um, Australia's immigration policy in internationally controversial, no?

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5cd640f6-9025-11e3-a776-00144feab7de.html#axzz2zjsbaFW2

yes it was/is - there treatment of illegal immigrants is not great ...or their treatment of indigenous people

fine as long as you accept all the Brits working in the EU back as well

That would be up to each individual country to decide.

Shutting the gaping open door policy is what UKIP want and what a lot of people agree with.

Its really sad on these threads when there is an inference of lazy Brits who do not want to work hard. Amazing casual racism towards British people.

Surely, Britain, we as a country should be looking to tackle any issues surrounding jobs and work before writing people off as work shy? Some one coming from a poorer country working here has lots more reasons to work hard, one being the money earned here will be worth a heck of a lot more in their native country where they can go back and buy/build a house and so on - just being one example.
I know lots of men who have come to work here, they live in cramped houses and work as builders and such, and yes, they work hard and do an excellent job, live for as little as possible and send the money home. It can do an awful lot back home which is great for them. But what about the British builders who have much higher bills to pay, families to support here in expensive Britain, how are they being helped?

The Conservatives have reduced immigration from non-EU countries but have to accept uncontrolled immigration from EU countries

I would much rather a normal system whereby we can welcome all from all over this vast vast varied world.

UKIP is basing the right of residency on what skills that immigrant can offer. Just as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA...... most sensible countries do

I agree I do not see why we do not implement this. I have friends who have moved to all those countries and they have had to really prove over and over again, they are genuine, they have the skills for the jobs they want, for instance, one was a hair dresser and they have to prove they are not going to take some ones job.

These countries, USA and so on, are full of immigrants from all over.