to consider UKIP racist?

[fidelineish]

Tell me, please.

And still the doom and gloomers without proof spout the racist claptrap as always in relation to UKIP

It is in relation to UKIP because it is a proposed UKIP policy!

The proof is on their website.

As far as I am concerned a house policy that would, at a stroke, deny swathes of third generation Black and Asian Britons access to housing and restrict their access to health and social care, is racism by any other names. This is not about prioritising those born or long established here over recent immigrants, it is about treating some groups of fellow Britons as second class citizens on the basis of their origins.

I suppose I'm thinking why stop at housing, why not extend the "local" born rule to NHS, schools, politics, etc.
Nigel Farage's own children would be on dodgy ground (his wife is Danish, I think).

Yes it is, it first mentions benefit and health tourism [ie foreigners]. Then goes on to talk about priority for local people [UK born citizens]

I have no problem with making sure UK citizens are catered for first....I would think that was quite normal isn't it?

And shock horror to even suggest that some people are considered to be foriegn.

This is the conservative view on Immigration in thier manifesto.

Clamping down on benefits tourism and health tourism - so that we only welcome those who want to work hard and contribute to our society

Sound familiar?

Cutting non-EU net immigration to its lowest level since 1998 - to ease pressure on the schools and hospitals that all hardworking people rely on

Sound familiar?

Introducing a new citizen test with British values at its heart

Just to cap it off they finish with this finale.

Now why isn't that manifesto construed as racist/Xenophobic?

German, and she is employed as his secretary. Taking the job of a British worker.

German, and she is employed as his secretary. Taking the job of a British worker.

She's also British because she is married to him.

Cheap point scoring at the expense of a European immigrant isn't clever.

Caruthers it's not disingenuous when they have said it. No one is extrapolating. You are clearly not going to read their manifesto as linked by Amber are you?

Are you ok with my British born children being treated as less equal because their grandparents on one side weren't born here yes or no? Because that's what it says.

I have no problem with making sure UK citizens are catered for first....I would think that was quite normal isn't it?

Do you agree with the proposal of tiered citizenship then?

And shock horror to even suggest that some people are considered to be foriegn

Yes, people born outside of the UK would be, but UKIP seem to deem those born in the UK to parents born outside of the UK foreign too.

You haven't read one reply have you softly?

Did you read the parts of the Tory manifesto I posted and what are your views on them?

If you apply for a council house in many wards right now they will ask you if you have a local connection....what UKIP are suggesting is no different.

It has been pointed out to you that the part of the UKIP European manifesto is aimed with UK locality in mind.

What are your views on the Conservative manifesto which discriminated against ALL countries outside the EU?

This is typical of all debate with UKIP supporters.

When you show them the facts, complete with links to their beloved UKIPs website, they still want to argue and deny.

So predictable.

Do you agree with the proposal of tiered citizenship then?

We've already got that.

Upper Class

Middle Class

And the poor.

And as for UKIP suggesting UK citizens are foreign that's ridiculous.

Obviously when/If they achieve power there will be a lull in immigration and that will be less of an issue.

The Tories want less immigration too you know?

If you apply for a council house in many wards right now they will ask you if you have a local connection....what UKIP are suggesting is no different

It is totally different.

Having a local connection is based on where you have lived during your lifetime.

What UKIP are proposing is based on things that happened before you were born and that you had no influence over.

There is a massive difference.

This is typical of all debate with UKIP supporters.

This is typical of the generalisations thrown around by the blinkered lemmings that follow the status quo for fear of upheaval.

You are being deliberately obtuse.

The conservative manifesto says NOTHING about your parents and grandparents having to be born here to be considered an equal citizen. The UKIP one does.

So they are totally different.

Are my children who were born here less equal citizens yes or no?

yep many of their members are.

Tiered citizenship already exists, though.
The UK would strip me of citizenship & pack me back if I did something horrible; I bet that can't happen to native-born (at present). My original country citizenship is my birthright which I was able to pass to DC, but easily could be stripped off my DC if they did anything to piss my original govt. off enough.

That's leaving aside things like people with residency permits/leave to remain/green cards and their twilight status.

so this is just an extension of existing differences -- if the policy is interpreted as suggested

Funny how this has focused on council housing; I am fairly sure that it's something few immigrants can get their head around, anyway. We unusually come from countries with unimpressive welfare states, we can't really think in about entitlements so easily. I always think of myself going homeless if I lose everything, can't get my head around the idea that the govt. would just house me.

There was a big radio 4 programme recently about nationhood; part of what they were saying is how the nationstate is a very modern development, as is the idea of citizenship. I suppose citizenship is still evolving and it wouldn't surprise me if tiered citizenship became a new normal model in next century or so (not just in UK, in lots of places).

The conservative manifesto says NOTHING about your parents and grandparents having to be born here to be considered an equal citizen. The UKIP one does.

And that makes it right when the Tories discriminate?

Laughable.

The policy that is being mentioned is in the European manifesto.

Local is local as in the UK.

Are my children who were born here less equal citizens yes or no?

I haven't got a clue as to what your childrens status is.....you're the one who keeps mentioning them.

God knows why?

so this is just an extension of existing differences -- if the policy is interpreted as suggested

No it really isn't.

This is not about people who were born elsewhere though.

This is about british citizens who were born here

Funny how this has focused on council housing; I am fairly sure that it's something few immigrants can get their head around, anyway. We unusually come from countries with unimpressive welfare states, we can't really think in about entitlements so easily. I always think of myself going homeless if I lose everything, can't get my head around the idea that the govt. would just house me

It has focused on social housing because I quoted and linked to a UKIP policy on allocation of social housing based on where your parents/grandparents were born, not where you yourself were born.

That policy does not relate to immigrants, it relates to british born people whos parents/grandparents were immigrants.

Local is local as in the UK

Which by definition excludes those not born in the UK.

What does it being written in the European manifesto have to do with the price of fish?

Firstly you argue we can't find a policy.

Then you argue that the policy found is in a European manifesto, though it is a policy aimed at discriminating against UK citizens based on where granny is from regardless of where they wrote it.

Then you try to say the Tory policy is the same when it clearly isn't.

Nothing will actually open a mind like a pissed off thick clam so I'm out.

That policy does not relate to immigrants, it relates to british born people whos parents/grandparents were immigrants.

It absolutely doesn't say that at all.

I would think that you would have links where you were born and that your parents would have links to where you were born because they would have lived there before you.

The Conservative solution is to prohibit immigration outside of the UK but people just don't seem to take issue with that which is banal and hypocritical.

I haven't got a clue as to what your childrens status is.....you're the one who keeps mentioning them

God knows why?

Because her children due to having a non uk born grandparent, would be pushed to the back of the social housing queue should they ever require it.

Im surprised you don't understand why that point is relevant, it is what we are talking about.

Then you argue that the policy found is in a European manifesto, though it is a policy aimed at discriminating against UK citizens based on where granny is from regardless of where they wrote it.

I said find a racist policy and you or anyone else still haven't found one.

You are the one attributing colour to the policy.