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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want autonomy over my body.

999 replies

thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 16:12

Aibu here. I am 50 but apparently still fertile.

I have 4 children already and do not want any more.

According to some posters if I fell pregnant but hadn't used at least 2 methods of contraception I should be denied the abortion I would most definatly want.

I would have to go before a panel of judges in a court to plead my case. They would judge whether I should have an abortion or not.

Of course if there was a back log of cases then I would have to wait and if it reached 24 weeks it would be too late anyway.

I would be forced to give birth.

Aibu to be absolutely stunned at this posters view in Britain 2014?

OP posts:
AnyaKnowIt · 23/04/2014 19:22

SoonToBeSix Wed 23-Apr-14 19:15:40
Anya but the fetus is not part of her body , she is sustaining it yes but it is a separate entity whose life she is choosing to end.

And that is her choice.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 19:23

I love babies
I love all four of mine, to such an extent that had I become pregnant again (I'm 55 now) I would have had a termination. With good reason, but not justifying myself here because I don't have to.

gordyslovesheep · 23/04/2014 19:23

so if the baby would live - but the woman could die - say by not having cancer treatment - that's okay with you?

BeyondTired · 23/04/2014 19:23

And £ wise, even before that care, theres another x months of pregnancy and a labour to get through!

javotte · 23/04/2014 19:24

Fizzy if you believe that my extremism is shocking then let me talk so that everybody can see that I am crazy. Smile
I do not come here to troll or shock anyone. I come here to give my opinion about something I strongly believe in.

AnyaKnowIt · 23/04/2014 19:25

But why should a women's life be put at risk?

BeyondTired · 23/04/2014 19:25

And thats assuming it isnt a "medical reasons" abortion, that can raise the nhs costs a tad more

Swoopdewoop · 23/04/2014 19:27

Javotte, I haven't been concentrating on the whole thread so sorry if you've answered this already:

do you accept the premise that while you are entitled to live by your beliefs, you are not entitled to force another being to live by them?

MoominAndMiniMoom · 23/04/2014 19:28

I love babies too.

I love mine so much that if I were to become pregnant again now, at 19, I'd abort that foetus, because allowing it to develop into a baby would have a detrimental effect on my baby.

the 'I oppose abortion because I love babies' argument is very weak.

MyrtleDove · 23/04/2014 19:30

I love babies enough to know that I am not cut out for parenthood. Aborting a foetus before it became a baby I'd crappily look after seems to be by far the kindest thing to do.

IWillOnlyEatBeans · 23/04/2014 19:31

Please could someone provide a link to the research showing that fetuses don't feel pain until after birth? I did not know that.

Firmly pro choice here.

Tevin · 23/04/2014 19:36

It's important to keep having this debate (though for some of us it's real life not a debate) until women have full control of their own bodies. If we don't then you get governments sneakily making things harder: moving clinics so women have to travel, making women look at scans, enforcing 'counseling' with anti abortion groups. If I had been forced to jump through hoops to get a termination I would have died - how is that moral? How can it possibly be moral to torture women who don't want to be pregnant?
I never understand how people can say 'abortion is never right' then oh it's ok if the mother's life is at risk as if that is all women deserve. Why would we want careers, good health, enough money to support our existing children in a certain way etc etc? After all we're only women!

sandberry · 23/04/2014 19:37

I think abortion up to the age of viability is pretty cut and dry. Nobody has an obligation to use their body to support another, if a woman wishes to remove a baby from dependence on her body that is her choice and right and as a fetus under 24 weeks gestation is not able to survive independently it will die. But people die everyday for want of kidneys and we aren't making donation of one kidney mandatory for all those with two, because we subscribe to the principle of bodily autonomy

Over the age of viability obviously the right to remove the fetus from dependence on her body remains, what does come into question is the ethics of feticide, to kill a child capable of living if removed from the womb and if it has a severe disability then the arguments around euthanasia come into play. I think late term abortions involving feticide are more of an ethical question mark. It is not the ending of the pregnancy, an absolute right of the woman in any circumstance but the deliberate killing of a child who may survive.

javotte · 23/04/2014 19:37

Swoop yes, I do, when it is about your life only. But I believe that you do not have right of life and death on your child. From its conception.

AnyaKnowIt · 23/04/2014 19:40

javotte Wed 23-Apr-14 19:37:46
Swoop yes, I do, when it is about your life only. But I believe that you do not have right of life and death on your child. From its conception

Why?

WilsonFrickett · 23/04/2014 19:40

The 'I oppose abortion because I love babies' argument isn't even an argument. Spurious sentimental claptrap.

Dawndonnaagain · 23/04/2014 19:40

a snippet on babies and pain

poshme · 23/04/2014 19:46

I know someone who had been sterilised because she was told that another baby would kill her.
She got pregnant. She already had 3 children.
I know that before all this happened she was prolife.
She had an abortion. Should she have been using contraception? Should she have been forced to die in order to carry on with the pregnancy, therefore leaving her living children without a mother? She thought (and had been told) there was no way she could get pregnant.
It's easy to be black and white when it's not you.
Should she have had to go to a back street anortionist?

Raskova · 23/04/2014 19:49

Abortion is a very hard topic for me. I watched a video of a foetus wriggling away from whatever it is they use to terminate at later stage abortion. It was over ten years ago now and it still makes me feel sick.

Having said that, I am very much pro choice. That does not mean pro abortion. A woman should have every right to terminate if she wishes and have safe facilities to do so.

With rape and such things excluded, in this day and age, if you don't want to become pregnant there are many ways you can ensure you won't. It would be very hard if you are sensible to get pregnant by accident. That being said... I did it! I was very happy to know that if I wanted to terminate, there were supportive professionals I could talk to and safe places to do so.

Someone up thread said they didn't take MAP as life starts at conception... I'm guessing someone has pointed out that the MAP works before conception? Conception can take up to 48 hours. MAP works for 72. Unless it's changed.

BuggersMuddle · 23/04/2014 19:50

Javotte I'm interested in where exactly those who are pro-life from conception would draw the line - it it purely at immediate risk to life?

You mentioned if continuing the pregnancy would kill the mother, fair enough.

What if it reduces her long term chances (e.g. putting off cancer treatment)? Or since the life of the mother and fetus are of equivalent value (in your view) should the mother have the treatment that's right for her even if a side effect is killing or severely harming the baby?

What if the pregnancy was risking the mothers health, but not her life? So carrying the fetus to term would lead to a long term detrimental impact on her health. Should she just accept this as a consequence of being a woman in a sexual relationship? I know of many women who would take grave risks to bring a child into the world, but I think there are probably just as many who would would have a point at which they would rather abort for the sake of their own health.

What if the fetus has a condition incompatible with life?

BeyondTired · 23/04/2014 19:53

To the anti abortionists, what conditions would you set on me being able to take medication that is incompatible with pregnancy? What would you suggest if I then became pregnant anyway? By the way, these drugs can be used for abortion anyway, so even if I werent allowed one, it could happen accidentally.

Original poster
thebodydoestricks · 23/04/2014 19:55

Fizzy I am sorry if the thread offends you. Please feel free to hide it.

The trouble is people like baby doesn't have that option. She lives other people's doctrine and control of her body.

Of course everyone has the absolute right to never ever have an abortion. That's their absolute right.

However their views cannot be more valid than any other persons and they cannot and should not dictate to me or other women what they feel is acceptable for them.

I feel with the creeping forced birthers in America gaining ground we need to be vigilant and unequivocal.

I feel it's my body and my right to decide what is right for meand my life. No one elses just mine.

I have 4 children I love more than anything but if I got pregnant now I would expect to be able to terminate that pregnancy at the time of my choosing. I shouldn't need to justify myself to anyone at all.

OP posts:
javotte · 23/04/2014 19:55

Buggers if the death of the foetus is a side effect of the treatment, it is not morally wrong for me.

If the foetus is ill, let him or her die naturally. A nine-month life in utero is not worth less than a 70-year-old life outside the womb.

I have never heard of conditions "risking a mother's health, but not her life". Osteoporosis? PND?

BeyondTired · 23/04/2014 19:55

And i mean taking medication when i am not pregnant nor trying to be btw.
Would all premenopausal women have to remain untreated?

javotte · 23/04/2014 19:56

thebody if you keep on calling pro-lifers "forced birthers", can I call you "baby killer"?