to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

[fidelineish]

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

Caruthers /bigdog

In 2013 Nigel Farage put forward that we should allow Christian refugees from Syria but NOT muslim refugees.

Explain how this doesn''t indicate a racist party?

And I swear if you throw out "well Islam isn't a race" you negate any stance you may have.

Cog IKWYM I think. People should be at liberty to hold, and even express opinions that the majority find repellent, as long as said majority is similarly free to point out that they consider such views to be idiotic, poorly thought through, self indulgent marsh gas?

And the minority, while free to hold whatever views they like, should under no circumstances be allowed to use them as the basis for action - unless such action is fully in accordance with the laws of our society.

caruthers it would be easier if they stopped deleting stuff off their site. It's amazing how my bookmarks keep leading to "this page was not found" statuses

^^^^

Bigoted racist policy by the way as requested. Just in case you needed it spelling out.

Nope. Just saying I won't paraphrase.

Could you help me out with a definition of the phrase "local people" that is used liberally (but not explained) in UKIP manifestos. They are going to be an awfully lucky bunch come the UKIP government.

it would be easier if they stopped deleting stuff off their site.

Yes I wondered about that Tilly. I am sure there's an innocent explanation.

I think that, as a society, we have come to internalise the view that racist= bad without fully internalising non-racist prejudices. This has resulted in a weird situation where people who think of themselves as perfectly decent feel that they are being insulted when informed that their views are racist, while actually you're just stating a fact. I don't think there is as much "howling" as you suggest - people are perceiving an aggression that may not be there, or may be justified, and are disproportionately aggrieved because they are in denial about their own views.

If people don't want "racist" to be "howled" at them, or even simply "said", they should stop being racist.

Laying the blame for this offence at the people identifying racism is horribly mistaken and THAT WAY FASCISM LIES

“Vast swathes of the countryside will have to be sacrificed
to build new homes for immigrants ... migrants accounted
for almost half of the housing boom and 100,000 new
homes a year will be needed to accommodate them”.

Manifesto, page 2.

Really?

Apparent immigrants claim our benefits and buy our new-build 4-bed executive homes. Nice multi-tasking. I once found a BNP leaflet in a library book that said the same...

In 2013 Nigel Farage put forward that we should allow Christian refugees from Syria but NOT muslim refugees

Where were the Christian refugees going to go?

To another country where they may be persecuted?

That isn't a UKIP policy and it's not what I asked for.

Laying the blame for this offence at the people identifying racism is horribly mistaken and THAT WAY FASCISM LIES

Not quite what I was getting at AllHail. I do see what you're saying but it is not a question of 'blaming'. Or do you think that all people who express racist sounding views are irredeemable dyed-in-the-wool racists who just won't listen?

Ooh which manifesto is that Tilly (They seem to have several)

I'll be back later to see if anyone has found a racist UKIP policy.

It'll be a long wait but ..

Current one. d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf?1397750311

Incidentally, this is their new disability spokeswoman admitting that their own manifesto was shit. However, if they got in power, how much control do you think she'd have over the prats who designed the first one?
disabilitynewsservice.com/2013/05/ukip-set-for-radical-change-on-disability/

I'll be back later to see if anyone has found a racist UKIP policy.

I'm still looking for ANY unambiguous UKIP policy. I'm not sure the ambiguity and constant revising is as cunning as some of you think.

•Prioritise social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally*

So who is that then? I'm in Wales but was born in South Yorkshire so do I have to go back there to be housed?

Does my DH get a house in Wales when I wouldn't even though his mum was born outside the country?

Think these policies may be covering something up in their oh so useful vagueness.

But I'm sure if they haven't actually written down a racist policy in black and white then they aren't racists.

But then I also believe the moon is made of cheese

OP if either of the UKIP voters on the thread is willing to reconsider that my two most recent examples show UKIP are at least a teensy bit racist then I will agree reasoned debate is effective abs YANBU

Oh and don't forget to bring the official UKIP definition of "local people" with you on your return!

Michael Rosen wrote a short blog today that feels somehow relevant.

I am saying 'racism is baaaaad'

I was brought up in several countries on other continents. In my experience, racism is much less rife in the UK than many other places. I see many people, of all races, labelled racist when they speak out against a liberal immigration policy.

I have seen overtly racist behaviour in countries with draconian immigration rules, but it is seen as a positive preservation of national identity.

My (mixed race) family and I are often quite shocked by the speed with which the racist card is played in the UK to stifle debate.

I don't have answers, and I love reading differing viewpoints, but I sometimes think perhaps people in the UK should experience some of the overt racism encouraged by other cultures before labelling the viewpoint of a total stranger as such.

Especially as, in my understanding, racism is making a decision about another person based on the colour of their skin.

On the Internet, unless we state otherwise, are we not race-less?

Is it unreasonable to judge a party by the entertainment put on for party delegates at a party conference?

I think this Telegraph blogger has some good points, here, if so. blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100261889/ukip-are-now-a-racist-party/

My (mixed race) family and I are often quite shocked by the speed with which the racist card is played in the UK to stifle debate.

Yes. That has also been a problem in terms of public debate.

My convern is that racism is again on the increase, however.

no the internet is not raceless - I post from the experiences and background of a white, second gen immigrant, single parent from a hard background - these things colour my views and inform my beliefs ...in word on the internet or in day to day life

also maybe there is a link between 'our' quickness to 'play the race card' and the lower levels of racist abuse compared to other countries

Jesus caruthers really?

The highest numbers of Syrian refugees have gone into Lebanon, an Arab State NOT muslim who SUPPORTS freedom of religion and has a 36% Christian population.

The country offering the most places to refugees from Syria is GERMANY not exactly big of persecuting Christians either.

So your argument is bullshit.

As for that not being a pokicy well Okay I'm going to go and kick a puppy to death BUT I'm going to write in my will that my money goes to the dogs trust.

I haven't written down I'm an abuser of animals so therefore I'm not.

also maybe there is a link between 'our' quickness to 'play the race card' and the lower levels of racist abuse compared to other countries

Interesting. How do you mean?