to think that howling at people that they are racist is not...

[fidelineish]

..the best way to challenge their thinking or change their views?

It crops up on here frequently and it is only going to become more frequent as UKIP campaigning steps up.

Which parts of the EU are different races?

Ethnic Sami are thought to possibly have Asian ancestry (no-one is quite sure) so parts of Norway and Finland. Although the Sami have so effectively been marginalised, no-one seems to count them.

I would be surprised if some of the Eastern European countries didn't have slightly non-European heritage in some areas. Not everyone in Europe, which borders Asia and was subject to invasion and migration throughout history, is of entirely European ancestry.

And surely parts of Southern Spain, which used to be under Moorish rule, would feature many people with Moorish heritage, which is Arabic/North African?

In fact, part of Spain is on the African continent - Ceuta.

Lib dems laid down with the devil. Can't really use them as an example.

It's all well and good taking a single policy and screaming racists but there's more to UKIP than that policy. I've had a quick search and I can't find anything on it. Do you have a link?

Wowzers, are you having a laugh?!

This is the party you want to vote for! Why have you not looked at their manifesto? it wouldn't take long, there isn't much substance to it. I have linked to it numerous times on this thread. It's on their website.

The thing with the parents and grandparents policy is it doesn't single out immigrant groups exclusively

Immigrant groups? The issue is that it would apply to people who were born here and living in the area they have always lived in, those people are not immigrants they are british.

And what have UKIP done since this individuals true beliefs have come to light? Have they embraced him and his views or have they disassociated themselves from him and suspended him from the party?

Read this for fairly definitive answers on UKIPs links to far right groups and general xenophobia, homophobia, Islamophobia and misogyny within the party.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Some edited highlights:

Olly Neville, their youth chairman was sacked when he revealed his support for same sex marriage.

One UKIP candidate felt that all disabled children should be aborted

Garage in co president of the EFD, the other co president said that Anders Brevik ideas were 'in defence of Western Culture' and another member of the group stated that Brevik had some 'excellent ideas'.

Political correctness is stifling free speech”, states the Ukip manifesto. Their “Pocket Guide to Immigration” promises to “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”.

Ukip’s only female MEP (after the expulsion of Nikki Sinclaire) Marta Andreasen, recently threatened to leave the party, labelling Farage as an “anti-women Stalinist dictator” whose view is that “women should be in the kitchen or in the bedroom”.

On a private members’ forum, senior UKIP member and former parliamentary candidate Dr Julia Gasper claimed some homosexuals prefer sex with animals. The Mirror reported her as saying: “As for the links between homosexuality and paedophilia, there is so much evidence that even a full-length book could hardly do justice to it"

What a bunch a charmers...

Farage, not Garage. Garages have more personality and charm.

AmberLeaf, I've found the policy you're referring to. There's actually quite a lot to go through on their website!

It is, and I quote: • Prioritise social housing for people whose parents and grandparents were born locally.

From that you're taking the racist standpoint, surprise surprise. It also, as I said earlier, applies to people moving within the country. If a white/Caucasian family moved from Liverpool to London and had a child there then priority would be given not to them, but to the family with parents and grandparents born there already. Which could quite easily be an English black/negroid family.

I don't see an issue with that.

Chacha, the new statesman is left wing, they're somewhat biased to say the least.

Haventguard(if directed at myself), I agree with you but you are trying to play the bat not the ball.

either the uk is in dire shite! or all political parties will be discussing these issues in the next election

There's actually quite a lot to go through on their website!

That manifesto is 6 pages long. Hardly epic.

I know what it says, I have quoted it myself many posts back.

I have explained quite clearly why it is a racist policy. Maybe go back and have a read of my posts.

Which could quite easily be an English black/negroid family

Not likely for a black british person to have both sets of parents and grandparents born in the uk.

Unless you are talking in forensic anthropological terms, don't use the word negroid. It is offensive.

AmberLeaf, the euro manifesto is 6 pages but I also read the local manifesto which is 12.

In your opinion, of which you are freely entitled in this great country, it's a racist policy, in mine it isn't. I would say the policy affects far more white/Caucasian (am I allowed to say that?) people than other races. Do you not care about white/Caucasian people too? Why not just say it's an unfair and discriminatory policy rather than playing the race card?

And what terminology can I use to define race? I've tried to simplify it down to the four main recognised races after being chastised over my original interpretation but now I'm being chastised again.

Race has a definite meaning and you can't just make up your own definition and say that English people and only English people have a race of their own.
White English people probably belong to the Caucasian race along with most of Europe but many English people are of different races eg Asian but would still regard themselves as English.
German people don't have a race of their own either. Hitler liked the term Aryan race but googling that it seems to be a subsection of the Caucasian race and to be fairly vague and largely ideological (for the Nazis) as a concept.
Alot of people here are talking about ethnicity not race.

2rebecca, I didn't say only English people have a race of their own, I'm not sure where you've got that from? I said I view England as a RACE OF PEOPLE, just as I view the French as a race of people. That's a perfectly legitimate way of saying it if you look up the definition.

In anthropological terms, as AmberLeaf pointed out, there are FOUR recognised races. I won't repeat them as I'm not allowed as it's offensive.

In an anthropological context, it is not offensive to use that term.

If refering to a British black family, it would be offensive to call them a British negroid family.

In anthropological terms, as AmberLeaf pointed out, there are FOUR recognised races. I won't repeat them as I'm not allowed as it's offensive.

Yet another example of PC gone mad

Jewish people are often referred to as a race.

Is that incorrect too?

No. Jews frequently collectively refer to themselves as a race or 'people' so I'm sure it is fine.

No. Jews frequently collectively refer to themselves as a race or 'people' so I'm sure it is fine.

So there are in fact 5 races of people?

Overlapping (and largely spurious) classification systems I suspect.

Overlapping (and largely spurious) classification systems I suspect.

I agree!

tiggytape

Parties of all colours look after the party first. They initially brave it out to avoid scandal or laugh it off and minimise complaints but if that all fails, the person in question is toast.

It's probably true that the primary consideration of any political party's leadership is the party's survival. However, the skill with which they foster the party's survival affords us insight into their thoughts, opinions, ability to make judgments, and their connection with the public.

I am not, and could never be, a skilled public relations expert, and this may be why (like Cameron presumably) I thought Miller could survive the recent controversy and that people would forget the issue and the coverage would imply become next week's cat litter-tray liner. So, I'm not a great political analyst. However, I didn't think it was possible for UKIP to keep Silvester, from the first. UKIP needed to see the protests and lots of negative coverage before they realised the same. It was the same with Geoffrey Clark, who supported compulsory terminations for women carrying fetuses with disabilities and "giving free euthanasia advice to all folk over 80" for the sake of saving NHS funds.

Why is it that UKIP didn't foresee the public outrage coming their way with the first phone call from an excited journalist?

I'm not a conservative voter and I don't hold a torch for the party, but I suspect that if Geoffrey Clark or David Silvester had still been members of the Conservative party (they were both once members) at the time of the remarks/letter, they would have been thrown to the wolves by Conservative High Command within hours of the first media contact.

Each time, it takes UKIP days to recognise the political expediency of distancing themselves from viewpoints that are the definition of "oh fuck, he said what? We'll lose votes for sure!"

Regarding the thread's latest tangent, surely, as adults, we all know that words take on different meanings and connotations in different contexts?

It is not "political correctness gone mad" (hackneyed phrase) but a simple matter of language usage and manners.

Clearly lots of groups/races 'self-determine' but it doesn't necessarily help outsiders to arrive at a respectful, clear and helpful descriptor.

This whole subject seems a prime example of the adage about language getting in the way of communication.

In anthropological terms, as AmberLeaf pointed out, there are FOUR recognised races. I won't repeat them as I'm not allowed as it's offensive

Yet another example of PC gone mad

I didn't say it is offensive to utter the terms used anthropoligically to classify race.

But Im sure, what with you being so clevah, that you know this.

'PC gone mad' = 'People are trying stop me from being as racist as I'd like to'

Caruthers If you found yourself PM with a good solid majority and so were free to legislate at will, what would you do about immigration?

This thread has just turned into a point scoring merry go round.