to believe the remaining UK should not make special exceptions for Scottish economic refugees?

[longfingernails]

In the event of Scottish independence, the Scottish economy will be in the toilet. In this event, Britain should not be allowed to become a magnet for Scottish economic migrants.

I wouldn't blame Cameron if the Scots choose independence; the Tory party don't exactly have a strong foothold in those parts. However, I will certainly excoriate him if he gives an inch in any negotiations in the event of independence - especially if he allows large scale unskilled immigration from Scotland into Britain.

An independent Scotland would have almost zero negotiating power and Britain should exploit that to maximise our own advantage.

So do my kids stay in England where they were born and I get shuchtied back up to Scotland where I was born because of a vote I may or may not agree with? Is that what we do, round up all the Scots living in England and put them back across the border? Will Scottish passports be blue? Will they change the British flag? Will they stop selling Irn Bru down here? These are all important things I need to know!

Caruthers, after we vote yes, the Scots will be fielding a team of experts (lawyers, economists etc) to enter into negotiations with WM. It won't be a bunch of party-politicians making absurd and un-deliverable demands. These matters are far too important for everyone.

I sincerely hope that WM will do the same; plebicites are not the most reliable deciders in such matters.

Plainly, I will be voting yes, but I'll be doing so in the hope and belief that it'll be best for everyone in the long run; that rUK can get better choices of representation in WM when the people of rUK realise how much, and how badly, WM has been lying to all of us for decades. How corrupt WM has become, how much they're punishing poor people for the crime of being poor, how much they're lining the pockets of the wealthy.

And this isn't an anti-Tory rant, NuLab have been as bad since Tony took over, and the LibDems have hardly covered themselves in glory.

I am honestly delighted that we, in Scotland, have the chance to cast off those shackles come September. I am also honestly sad that rUK don't have that chance.

But rUK can make that chance; it's up to you.

I'll stop ranting now.

and I get shuchtied back up to Scotland

I certainly hope that doesn't happen and i'm positive you'll get the chance to decide what you want to do.

Will they stop selling Irn Bru down here?

I hope they stop selling it here because it's a most disgusting beverage and completely foul.

FFTCB - maybe an independent Scotland would want to retain all stocks of Irn Bru within its borders (though I personally would be pushing for 100% exporting of the gutrotting brew) but I see the likelihood of you being shuchtied back up to Scotland after a yes vote being about as strong as my half-English offspring and their Sassenach father being schuchtied down south.

FanfuckingTastic... No, no, possibly (but aren't EU passports sorta redwine coloured?), there is speculation (and it would make sense) and as long as there is a market, no.

Does that put your mind at rest?

Longfingernails - I've lived in a small European country which wasn't a member of the EU or on the UN Security Council, and things worked very well there with a government which could control its own currency and economy to the advantage of its population. And, in response to your other comment, I'm not talking romantically about some idealised spirit of the Scottish people - I'm saying that if there is a yes vote, things can be made to work.

Perhaps Scotland should consider now whether it is prepared to host UK ecconomic migrants.

Why does the OP think us Scots are all unskilled workers?

I think the OP may be shit stirring Groovee.

Like SconeQueen i live in a small country that is not in the EU with our own government.

It does work, but then we have no borders joining us with continents

Surely though, even if an independent Scotland weren't part of the EU for a while at least, it would negotiate a trade treaty with England and Wales. Which would probably include free movement of workers.

Otherwise Scotland and the rest of the UK would be stuffed. Surely this must have been covered by the independence debate somewhere? Surely...

That's a great idea! as long as the celibacy part isn't too strictly adhered to

This thread is bonkers

Why do the soldiers have to be celibate?

btw, the Scottish people are citizens of Europe and this can't be given up. So they are very unlikely to be treated as a new applicant. I have never heard such scare mongering shite in my life.

This is wrong, btw.

The Scottish state will be new and thus will have to apply to the EU as a new member.

The Yes argument is that we currently have EU citizenship, but EU citizenship is dependent on and additional to national citizenship. So if iScotland temporarily was not in Europe, it all comes down to whether or not our British passports and citizenship are still valid, and whether or not a yes vote is seen as renouncing UK citizenship. There's arguments to be made on both sides.

The Scottish state will be new and thus will have to apply to the EU as a new member

Again, this depends on whether Scotland is a continuing state or a successor state.

Successor state: brand new country. Clean slate. No UK assets/liabilities/treaties etc. Starting completely from scratch.

Continuing state: bit like a divorce. Scotland's gets a negotiated share of assets/iabilities and continues with UK treaties where possible.

I don't believe that things could be any worse in an independent Scotland than they are in a Scotland under the tories and WM. At least niw we have a chance to make things better.

I also come from a small (in population) European country that only joined the EU in the 90's, but has been absolutely fine before and since, with very little societal/economical inequality and e.g. the best schools in Europe..

You don't believe a word I say, so I shall use your own words from the 'sponsored discussion' thread

Sun 06-Apr-14 22:16:56: The existing state (UK) would break into separate entities - "Scotland" and "the RUK". The larger, more populous entity (RUK) would become the 'continuing' state. The smaller entity (Scotland) that wished to leave would secede and become a new state and would (somewhat confusingly) be known as a 'successor' state. The continuing state (the RUK) would inherit the vast majority of the rights and obligations of the UK whereas the successor state (Scotland) would essentially start anew internationally.

There's virtually no international precedent for Scotland to be a continuing state when the rUK is bigger in every respect.

The Foreign Affairs Committee believes that this is the most likely outcome: The existing state (UK) would break into separate entities - "Scotland" and "the RUK". The larger, more populous entity (RUK) would become the 'continuing' state. The smaller entity (Scotland) that wished to leave would secede and become a new state and would (somewhat confusingly) be known as a 'successor' state. The continuing state (the RUK) would inherit the vast majority of the rights and obligations of the UK whereas the successor state (Scotland) would essentially start anew internationally.

Oh you quoted from the FAC in the first place! Sorry for doubling. Feel ghastly this morning.

What a nasty, xenophobic OP.

It appears that it has not just been the No voters in Scotland who have bought the 'Scotland's a burden' line but also plenty of people in rUK too.

Why would anyone want to leave a country with
-free personal care for 65+ (think £600pwk for years)
-free university tuition (£27,000 per child)
-free prescriptions
-a public NHS
-guaranteed access to your local school
-council tax freeze
-toll free roads and bridges
-social housing being built
-enough space for everyone
-good public services
-reasonable house prices
-public water supply

Why would any workers want to move down South to high unemployment, zero hour contracts, bedroom tax and no hope of home ownership?

There are and will be more jobs up here post Yes vote in
-renewable energy (1/4 of Europe's wind and wave power)
-food and drinks (when it's no longer strangled by WM policies)
-electronics
-creative industries, gaming, publishing, film and TV
-medical research and technology
-higher education (Scotland has the highest proportion of top Universities of ANY country in the world)
-tourism (which will see an immediate boost post iScotland)
-finance
-call centres (our accents are highly valued)
-textiles

Scotland has great brand power and this will increase post Yes.

We will not be short of jobs.

The only thing we'd move away for is better weather and we'd hardly move to England for that

Can we keep our square sausage?

weatherall very few of those things can be guaranteed. They all cost a lot of money and most of them are SNP policies- they wouldn't necessarily be in power in iScotland.

renewable energy (1/4 of Europe's wind and wave power)- heavily subsided by WM- where is the money coming from in iScotland?
food and drinks (when it's no longer strangled by WM policies) Does rUK not eat? I mean, I know you think they're the spawn of the devil but come on.
electronics, creative industries, gaming, publishing, film and TV, medical research and technology, higher education- All dependent on investment, a lot of which comes from UK bodies. This has to be replaced. Scottish universities are actually dropping in the league tables. (Scotland has the highest proportion of top Universities of ANY country in the world)
tourism (which will see an immediate boost post iScotland) I presume you are referring to the APD being scrapped, which again is a SNP policy. Furthermore, Scotland makes billions from APD, I wouldn't be so quick to turn it down in case of tourism.
finance - will depend on the economic situation, massively.
call centres (our accents are highly valued) our accents? You serious?

I think the Tories might fight for square sausage MrsThor.

It will all depend, won't it? Mr Salmond hasn't given us any real answers beyond the "it's all gonnae be great', and youse are a' just scaremongering".

If we are better off - and it's a big if, given that the majority of Scots still don't want independence, then he'll have a short window in which to deliver this Utopia, otherwise the wealth will simply pour out of the country. We already have our finances set up so that we will very quickly move our money out of Scotland unless we are very quickly better off - as have many, many other Scots.