to believe the remaining UK should not make special exceptions for Scottish economic refugees?

[longfingernails]

In the event of Scottish independence, the Scottish economy will be in the toilet. In this event, Britain should not be allowed to become a magnet for Scottish economic migrants.

I wouldn't blame Cameron if the Scots choose independence; the Tory party don't exactly have a strong foothold in those parts. However, I will certainly excoriate him if he gives an inch in any negotiations in the event of independence - especially if he allows large scale unskilled immigration from Scotland into Britain.

An independent Scotland would have almost zero negotiating power and Britain should exploit that to maximise our own advantage.

if the Scots retain their British passports we wouldn't become 'foreign

If they vote yes the polite rhetoric would stop and Scotland and the Scottish would indeed get full independence.

If people identify with being Scottish and have a Scottish passport then they would certainly be foreign.

If an agreement was made that ALL Scottish people had UK passports what would be the point of issuing Scottish passports?

It doesn't sound like independence to me.

Indeed Bochead we could go back to Wessex, Northumbria, the Danelaw bit, East Anglia, etc. as individual countries. Why stop at Scotland?

(Except theres no demand for it of course).

But back to the OP. This means Gordon Brown, the most expensive Scottish "migrant" in living history, possibly ever, will be sent back as he will be unemployed. Yippee!

Why not. There are loads of dual nationals about. Doesn't mean they are not dual nationals of independent countries.

'foreign' is just a word. Good night, all.

would I get a scottish passport then as a resident in england woudl I retain dual nationality I might not want to seperate from scotland so do I get to hold the door open?

They would still have UK passports.

Northern Ireland folk can have uk and Irish passports because ROI offer this.

The UK government will offer this to the Scots too as they're UK citizens

There are stipulations on dual citizenship and if those stipulations are not met then I don't see why Scottish people living in Scotland should get dual nationality by right.

sconequeen Oh, I'm absolutely sure that in the long-term Scotland could be a very viable and successful independent small country.

However, in terms of the divorce itself, it holds very few trump cards. It will have no embassies. It will have very few institutions of state compared to what it will need. It will have no independent tax collection system. It will lost tens of thousands (net) public sector jobs, and probably tens of thousands of private sector jobs. It will have to get the UK's permission to join the EU (whilst wanting to discriminate against UK students...). Also, foolishly Salmond has set a specific date for independence, which puts him under time pressure.

When I say the UK will have the upper hand - I mean chiefly during the negotiations.

caruthers - independence and UK citizenship are not interlinked.

If Scotland votes yes, I will be moving up there in about 20 years time for the free care home.

LaurieFairyCake if Scotland vote yes then they will be leaving the UK.

They will not necessarily have to get the UKs permission - the Scottish people are citizens of Europe and this can't be given up.

So they are very unlikely to be treated as a new applicant.

I have never heard such scare mongering shite in my life.

LaurieFairyCake if Scotland vote yes then they will be leaving the UK

That may not be the case. Alternatively it. could be treated as dissolution of treaty of union. Both parties leave each other.

LaurieFairyCake scaremongering?

From what I can see independence means very little because the yes vote want everything they have now but with 'independence'..

Hopefully there will be a reciprocal arrangement where English/Welsh/Northern Irish people will be able to apply for and get a Scottish passport.

Hopefully there will be a reciprocal arrangement where English/Welsh/Northern Irish people will be able to apply for and get a Scottish passport

People living outside Scotland will be able to apply for Scottish citizenship based on various widely used criteria.

But Grennie, you'll be a foreigner, and no more entitled to free personal care than any other foreigner. Move now, vote yes, and give yourself a chance!

I thought that was the point, for those who want independence, to become, in effect foreigners: citizens of a different country. I thought that's what the independence vote was about - becoming newly differentiated by formal citizenship (not just identity) and hence government, from the people who live in e.g. Yorkshire or Surrey.

I may disagree with the OP on a million things, but I surely people who want independence should be embracing the term 'foreigners' (and perhaps, privately, the strongest 'yes' voters are?), given all the "we're not like you, we should have a different government" rhetoric?

I don't want independence (obviously)

Scotland and England would suffer with it.

Yes, agree there would likely be a reciprocal arrangement.

I really dislike how many threads the OP starts trying to stir up racism - if you look at their threads they've taken against a lot of nationalities in their BNP/Ukip wankathon.

That widely used criteria if i'm not mistaken is that they are Scottish isn't it?

Or have Scottish parents/Grandparents etc...

That's not what I asked.

Will English people have access to a Scottish passport if they want one?

So they can use the facility available for free university education etc?

Thanks, longfingernails for your first sentence.

Our trump card during the transition will be our people. For centuries we've gone out and played a leading role in building new countries, administrations, companies and industries. The best things are worth working for, and if there's a "yes" vote, we'll get to where we need to be. The EU will take us, if we decide we want to go in. And we went into the Union of the Parliaments as equals - we were not conquered - which means that we have rights in terms of defining how that Union is dissolved.

And anyone who thinks Salmond's foolish should look at how far along he's got so far...

You don't need a passport to get free tertiary education now. You need to live in Scotland (for two years prior to application, I think) or be an EU citizen. The rUK is excluded because we are viewed as a "region" and it's ok on that basis; I'm not saying it's fair, but it's legal.

I disagree with the Scottish gvt that we could continue that policy after a yes vote, because we would continue to be part of the EU, as would rUK, and I think (that until rUk votes to leave EU) rUK citizens would be entitled to free uni education here.

Of course if we're not part of EU, there would be no free tertiary edu for anyone other than people living here...

No, we didn't go into the union of parliaments as equals. Have you studied Scottish history? Specifically the period between the union of the crowns and the union of the parliaments?

Yes, I have. There was a lot of dirty dealing, but we weren't conquered...

sconequeen You're wrong. Up to now Salmond has had a fairly receptive audience for his message. After independence he will have an actively hostile one. I don't think he's a fool generally, I think he's an extremely effective advocate for his cause (though the specific date was unnecessary and foolish). I do think he's a conman though - promising fantasy, knowing full well he can't deliver.

Also, the conditions under which Scotland would become independent would be voted on at Westminster. And even as incompetent as they are, they would have to be blithering idiots to make Scotland independent on equal terms with the remaining UK. For example, Scotland won't be a full member of the UN Security Council. Scotland won't be an member of the EU without the consent of the remaining members (including the remaining UK, not to mention Spain) - though personally, I think this would be a net benefit for Scotland.

And the spirit of the Scottish people, or other frivolous meaningless nonsense, would count for nought when measured up to the reality of having next to no power in independence negotiations.

OldLadyKnowsSomething thanks for that clarification and your opinion that the situation is unfair with the yes campaign still wanting to carry on the agreement and discriminate against the rest of the UK even after a yes vote.

Whilst i'm pumping my fist at Scotlands chance for independence I wish that the rest of the UK could get a say on any agreements made after a yes vote as to what arrangements are made which favour Scots and prohibit ruk citizens.