josie cunningham.

[CunningAtBothEnds]

I have read an article on the above where she states despite being 18 weeks pregnant and pleased up until now she will be having an abortion to "further her career" namely to qppear on big brother.

whether this is morally ok is one thing but AIBU to ask if an abortion for the reasons she gives is legal? i suppose its similar to someone saying its not the right time, just more brazen?

(I consider myself pro choice btw I just find her apparent callousness a bit tough to take)

To me, unprotected sex means, er, not using contraception? yes, and you made it sound like unwanted pregnancies are only ever the result of unprotected sex.

Sure, Tracy, but I think most people having abortions probably would prefer that they'd "prevented" rather than "cured" as well, because it's less invasive. But abortion always seems better to me than the alternative of forcing a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, no matter what the reason for the pregnancy.

The fact that she'd had five miscarriages isn't that surprising because she did want to continue this pregnancy until very recently.

'Prevention is better than cure' is a figure of speech. I put quotations around the word 'cure' as I didn't feel like it was the most appropriate word. I also wasn't talking about rape or failed contraception, I was talking about people havimg abortions after having COMPLETELY unprotected sex. Prevention is better than 'cure,' i.e take your family planning seriously. Don't throw examples of crazy instances where high reliability contraception has failed at me. It is irrelevant as the article is about Josie Cunningham, who in my opinion, was a dumbass having unprotected sex with her client and male friend. It could have easily been avoided.

Differentname you would have to be stupid to think that people only get pregnant through unprotected sex? Everyone knows that there is no perfect form of contraception. The only truly reliable method of course is to abstain.

Tracy she wanted to be pregnant.

But it was not.therefore the only option she has it to resolve it how she chooses.

Pro choice means just that

I know unwanted pregnancies do happen, but to have unprotected sex when you don't want a baby is stupid.

I took this generally, not just to mean for the case we are discussing. To me, it does sound like you are saying that all unwanted pregnancies are the result of not using contraception.

Beside, in Josie's case, she DID want the baby. She has talked of buying baby clothes etc. So no, she wasn't 'bloody stupid' really.

It is only now, when she thinks those who are more powerful than her can deny her what she really wants (fame), are ready to pull the plug on her, that her decision has changed.

She isn't making that choice [termination] because she can't be arsed anymore, or because she realises she may have been careless, she is doing it because she thinks fame awaits her. Because she is too naive to see that isn't so.

She shouldn't be vilified for that, because she is not thinking straight.

tracypenisbeaker

yet you were the one who alluded to it, not me!

I do think C5 now have a responsibility to lay it out to her (not publicly) whether or not they're prepared to reconsider their offer.

The rights and wrongs of termination aside I can't see many people touching her with a barge pole now. She's massively underestimated how society in general perceives abortion and the emotions it envokes.

She'll be stringed along for a couple more articles like the ones today - I've no doubt the reporter was beyond supportive to her face - and used to get the masses frothing. She'll be left to cope with the villainised public perception of her and honestly I think this young women will buckle badly. The strongest of us would, never mind someone who quite clearly doesn't make particularly well thought out choices.

Abortion is there for a good reason. We have the right to have control over whether or not we reproduce.

I had an abortion at 19 and I will never regret it, it was the right decision. I was incapable of looking after a child after a very difficult childhood of my own, but I would not have been able to mentally cope with adoption. I would have tried to keep the baby, failed and and it would probably have gone into care and had the resulting difficult life. I know I did the right thing for both of us. I know have a family at a better point in my life where I am able to cope and have a lot of support.

But I still think contraception is the best option. I still think that abortion should be done as early as possible. And I think it is not something that should be done lightly or without deep consideration.

It is possible to be pro-choice without thinking that it is something that should be treated as of as little consequence as taking a shit as this girl appears to.

Everyone has there own views on abortion
Everyone has there own views on prostitution

But what is plain to me is she's a very average looking, talentless wannabe who will happily put herself on the tabloids spreadsheets (and note the story ran this weekend when maybe more people would sit down to read the Sunday Papers).

She has an NHS breast enlargement - then goes to the Press to gloat
She has illusions of doing Glamour Modelling (buy a mirror love)
She decides they are too big, and wants an NHS operation to reduce them, back to the tabloids to tell us all
She wants to pay the NHS back, so gets a job.....as an Escort
She gets pregnant and. oh, we all need to know.
We see the scans. She spends money on baby clothes.

I DON't see how she is vunerable or in any way "ill"

She's a conniving schemer who wants to keep herself in the Public Eye.

I don't think she will terminate TBH.
The footballer and the surgeon (client) apparently want to give her maintenence.
But only one is the dad?
Obviously she hasn't taken their viewpoint on board either.

I do feel very sorry for her sons though. I bet her 7 yo will be looking forward to going back to school on Tuesday, knowing that most of his classmates and the other parents will have read this.

And if she was at my DC school, I'd fecking judge with bells on.

I agree with who ever said the producers from channel 5 need to lay their cards on the table with her. If she aborts a much wanted baby on the chance of Bb and then is still rejected how will that affect her.

I cant see this ending well for her career regardless now anyway.

Everyone has a right to abortion, in my personal opinion.
I think what people are troubled by is this woman's behaviour surrounding wanting one.
She first made me feel rather revolted ... Now I feel sorry for her and her unborn child. She is clearly not well. At all. I hope she has a necessary intervention to help her.

I've not read the full thread so apologies if it's moved on from the pro choice discussion.

I think it's possible to be pro choice and still disgusted by an individual's particular reasons for aborting.

It's like being anti-murder but agreeing with euthanasia to a degree. (Well the opposite but you know what I mean)

If the article is to be believed, which I don't in all honesty, she appears to have been happy with the pregnancy until she found it had harmed her chances to go on big brother. To suddenly go from wanting the child you are carrying to not just like that days to me she is in serious need of help. Either that or an intensely awful type of person.

I am 25 weeks pg, and having seen my baby boy on screen, felt him wiggling and kicking, and the intense love I have for him already, I cannot comprehend killing him. For any reason. But that's just me, I understand that people feel differently, and if there is a genuine mental or medical reason why the pregnancy can't continue then I support the woman's choice. But there is not a valid reason to kill this child.

I realise this makes me sound like a hypocrite, and I am waffling, and I suppose it is because I am only just a little bit more pg than she is, but this has made me incredibly sad. I just really really hope that it isn't true.

Eminy

You are quite a lot further al than her. You are past the legal limit and couldn't abort without there being serious risk to your own life

Eminy

You are quite a lot further along than her. You are past the legal limit and couldn't abort without there being serious risk to your own life or of severe disability or curtailed life in your baby.

If posters generally advocate a lower limit onabortion, that's one thing. But there is currently no requirement legally for a further medical reason for abortion until past the 24 week point.

I would have felt the same way at 18 weeks

(As I do now)

That's fair enough eminy, but as you say being pro choice means supporting the right to a choice even if you disagree with it or wouldn't choose it for yourself.

I guess I'm a conditional pro-choicer then

Do you think the abortion limit should be lower?

It's hard to say. In principal yes, but I I understand there may be exceptional circumstances which mean a higher limit may need to be applied.

All I can say is that this particular scenario is not right, ethically, and shouldn't be legally either.