to ask why the Yes campaign in Scotland wants to keep the pound?

[grovel]

That's it really. Surely an independent Scotland would want its own Central Bank setting interest rates etc?

Yesterday he was guaranteeing that rUK will carry on building its warships in a foreign country

Yes I had to scoff at that as well. It would be rather difficult for the UK government to explain that one to Portsmouth!

(hope you don't mind me correcting your apostrophe)

Yes, that one was a cracker redbinneo. How arrogant can you get?!

Here's the Scottish Affairs Committee on shipbuilding, if anyone fancies a read.

we will frequently not get the government we vote for

That holds true for every democracy in the world. Frequently you don't get the government you voted for. I didn't vote for Blair and I got him!

And for years there were more Tory votes actually counted in elections but Labour still got in, because of the number of tiny constituencies in old industrial centres.

And for years there were more Tory votes actually counted in elections but Labour still got in, because of the number of tiny constituencies in old industrial centres

That is still possible. In broad terms, if Labour is ahead of the Tories by 0.5% or more in the popular vote they get an overall majority in Parliament. The Tories, on the other hand, need a 5% lead to be the largest party and a 10% lead to get an overall majority. It is quite possible that the Tories will get most votes but Labour will get most seats in the next general election.

This is a little off topic, but what impact will Scottish independence have on Northern Ireland? Surely NI cultural ties are to Ireland and Scotland. I am not sure that England and Wales have a level of connection to NI for us to be in the same nation once Scotland has gone. Is it going to lead to problems and how do people in NI feel about it?

but what impact will Scottish independence have on Northern Ireland?

I believe (disclaimer, this is purely memory and may be wrong) that support for the union is quite high in NI; it gets the highest spending out of the four countries and would probably have the most to lose.

There's also, unfortunately, the religious/political dimension in NI, which I imagine would explode if a referendum was thrown into the mix.

The current Unionist majority in NI are by definition not wanting to split from the UK. That won't change until the Republicans become the majority due to their higher birthrate - then they will vote to join the Republic and the fireworks will start all over again.

Veryon- you have proved my point there about other's ignorance of Scots law.

We have always had our own court of final appeal in criminal cases.

Also it is pure arrogance to assume Englush law has been more influential on Scots law than vice versa. A good example being the Scots case of Donoghue v Stevenson (1932) which began the concept of duty of care ie what people think of as negligence law.

The 'not getting the government you vote for' argument is mor applicable to WM's first past the post system than the Scottish Parliament's proportional system though.

I prefer PR as we can have a parliament which is more mixed and should be more cooperative. We are supposed to live in a parliamentary democracy ie parliament should be more powerful than the executive (government). WM has moved away from this esp since Blair's 'presidential' style of leadership (aided by the unusually large majority).

IMO BT would have a stronger case for no if, ironically, the Tories hadn't won the AV referendum.

Also saying that whatever % of people in rUK don't get who they vote for isn't the same as people in Scotland because research shows that Scottish people are as a whole to the left of rUK. So it's not just that we didn't get whatever centre right party rUK wanted its that we never get the social democratic government we want.

The 'not getting the government you vote for' argument is more applicable to WM's first past the post system than the Scottish Parliament's proportional system though

I disagree.

Most of the time since 1945 we have effectively had a three party system in the UK with two major parties generally getting 30-40% of the vote each and a minor party getting less than half of that. Very roughly the major parties have each been in power 50% of the time whereas the minor party has not been in power at all until the current coalition. If we used PR the two major parties would still each have been in power around 50% of the time but the minor party would have been in power nearly 100% of the time. Indeed, the minor party would frequently have been able to act as kingmaker. So a party that most people had not voted for would frequently have been able to demand that some of its policies were implemented even if 70-80% of the voters were against them.

Of course, if Westminster elections did use PR that would help the Tories in Scotland. In the last general election they received 17% of the votes and won just 1 seat. The SNP received 20% of the votes but won 6 seats.

And actually, in a PR system no-one ever gets the government they voted for. Labour voters generally want to see a Labour government, Tory voters want to see a Tory government and so on but the most likely outcome is a coalition that no-one voted for.

weatherall

Donoghue was decided with reference to various case law, much of it English. It is actually a very good example of (English) common law and Scots law fusing, which undermines any argument that Scots law is somehow pristinely different or (for the two arguments go hand in hand) superior.

Scotland has shared a final court of appeal with the rest of the UK in civil matters for many years. Christ, Donoghue is an example.

So lay off the accusations about "other's [sic] ignorance about Scots law. None has been demonstrated on this thread.

Prh47 but you are proving my point!

English politics is split like that with 2 main parties and 1 smaller but Scottish politics isn't. There are 4 significant parties in Scotland and 2 minor (greens and socialist) as well as some fringe and independents.

Therefore Scottish politics is best served by PR and coalitions whereas English politics is best served by FPTP and no coalitions.

Very- if you are going to make smug faced corrections make sure you use quotation marks correctly or you just make yourself look stupid.

I deeply apologise.

Have just signed the Declaration on Yes Scotland website.

Slightly off topic.

I get increasingly more annoyed the more I read about this issue, read the papers and watch the news. Why should only Scots get to vote on this and no one else?

If the 'yes' votes wins, this decision will impact on the rest of the United Kingdom, so the rest of the UK should have a say in what happens.

It's not only Scots who are voting on this. Any EU citizen resident in Scotland also has a vote. If you want one, move here and register on the Electoral Roll before 2 September.

I shouldn't have to live in Scotland to vote on something that could affect the whole of the UK. I should get a vote.

I'm sorry you feel disenfranchised, but this decision was contained in the Edinburgh Agreement almost two years ago. The time to complain was some time before then. (There was some chap from Edinburgh, now living in London, who took the matter to Court, and lost.)

If it's any consolation, should we vote No, you can campaign for another referendum to be held only in England.

Scotland can indeed use the pound, as could any country in the world (as some do); using the pound and being in a currency union with the UK are two entirely different things.

I don't want Scotland to leave the UK. If the choice is independence however, I would not be supportive of the UK being in a currency union and it would not be in the UK's interests. Although there would be some benefit, the risk would outweigh these in my layman's opinion.

The use of rUK does get on my nerves. We are the UK now and will remain the UK if Scotland leaves. Happy to be a minority of one on this but I've got it off my chest (ample )

Are there any friendly marches planned anywhere for Welsh, Northern Irish and English folk to show our feelings of please don't leave to the Scots? We could be laden with Welshcakes, Lancashire hotpot and Ulster Fry, possibly a Victoria sponge too? not bribes honestly

Don't know about marches, but EnglishScotsForYES (@EnglishScot4YES) are having a tea party, with cakes, on the border on the A1 on September 7th.

Many thanks OldLady, I'm sure it will be a blast. I will keep on looking for a neutral one though