to ask why the Yes campaign in Scotland wants to keep the pound?

[grovel]

That's it really. Surely an independent Scotland would want its own Central Bank setting interest rates etc?

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

The cake is tempting though...

[OldLadyKnowsSomething]

But a "please don't go" wouldn't be neutral. It would be tying in with CallMeDave's plea (from the London Olympic Velodrome, which seems an odd venue from which to address Scots), and Bowie's "Stay with us" appeal (widely interpreted as an invite to crash at his New York pad ) and all the "lovebombing" we've been getting...

Not long to go now, though.

[Greenwayslide]

I would like Scotland to stay as part of the UK however I am against any currency union with a foreign country as I feel it is not in rUKs best interests.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

Fair point on the use of the word neutral, but I am looking for something with some regular folk showing that we'd like you to stay. Politicians and rock stars strictly off the guest list (perhaps that makes them irregular?).

I can't help it OldLady, I want you to stay.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

I suppose the neutral meant not politically aligned, but can see that could automatically be understood to be as No Thanks rally. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

[OldLadyKnowsSomething]

I honestly don't know of any organised "neutral" marches, demos etc; Dave asked everyone to phone their Scots-dwelling friends and relatives and say "We want you to stay" (the online reaction to that, that I saw, was mostly "Run, run like the wind!" ) a few months ago, but Gideon rather spoiled that when he reverted to Project Fear ("You can't use the £"; er, actually, yes we can...) about a week later. The Better Together UKOK No Thanks campaign has been rather confused, to put it nicely.

Can I ask why you want us to stay? A Yes vote won't mean closed borders, you'll be as welcome to visit as you are now.

[CallMeExhausted]

Having watched this entire situation play out across the pond repeatedly in Canada, it is interesting to see that the arguments are mostly the same.

In 1980, and again in 1995, the individuals living in Quebec went to the polls in a referendum on secession (la séparation) of the province from the rest of Canada.

In 1995, it was the goal of the Québécois to retain both the Canadian $ and Canadian passports, but to be politically and fiscally independent. The vote was SO close as to cause the entire country to hold its breath. The "no" vote (against separation, in favour of the nation remaining united) won with 50.58% of the vote - more than 93% of eligible voters cast their ballots.

I will admit, it is very interesting to be able to watch the same situation play out when I am able to be more detached and impartial.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

You can ask why OldLady, no problem.

All politics aside and from a feelings perspective.

The negotiations and departure will become so much more acrimonious and intense than the current campaigning. It could leave a deep divide for people within Scotland, and between Scotland and the UK that could take generations to heal, if ever. There will be blame and resentment forevermore if things go wrong for either party. It is hard to feel like anyone wins from a human relationships perspective. The split is going to be incredibly expensive for both countries.

I've hated reading the anti-UK, anti-England and equally anti-Scottish sentiments thus far, from the vocal minorities, it is sickening. It will only continue during negotiations, departure and for years after as things go well for one party or go wrong for the other.

I feel British. I have family in all four regions of the UK.
I don't want my husband and I and possibly our children to have to go to different embassies if we get into bother abroad.
I don't want to have to choose whether my children should be British or Scottish citizens.
I don't want to see boycotts of buying British or buying Scottish in the future if we have to support our own economies.

There are lots of other reasons but the bottom line is I am just a person who doesn't want the UK to split; in the same way that you are a person that does. Neither of us will change our minds and we can't help it.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

I suppose march makes it sound a bit dramatic. Seems Yes was right on a tea party approach; I shall google neutral tea party instead

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

CallMe, is Quebec planning on another referendum in the medium or long term?

[CallMeExhausted]

With regard to the Quebec referendum, only residents of Quebec could vote, despite the fact that it's secession from the nation would quite literally have divided the country.

There was a lot of dissent within the rest of the country over whether other provinces had the right to vote. Again, the answer was a resounding NO.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

How are things now?

[CallMeExhausted]

The idea for a third referendum has recently been floated, but the separatist movement seems to be wary of the "three strikes" phenomenon.

Part of the reason for this is that Quebec receives significant transfer payments that would be lost with separation, in addition to having to self-fund health care, social programs etc that are currently funded in whole or in part by federal funds.

The climate has shifted massively since the expansion of the oilfields in Alberta, British Columbia and offshore in the Atlantic. Quebec is no longer the financial big man on campus who can use its contribution to Canada as a whole as a bargaining tool. It receives quite a bit more than it contributes per capita and would flounder independently at the moment. Such is often the way with a resource-driven economy.

[OldLadyKnowsSomething]

CallMe, there was a programme tonight about the psychological techniques being used in the indyref, and many if them were exactly the same as those used in Quebec! The same arguments, almost word for word. It was fascinating to watch.

Thanks for your reply, Shakes. I'm sorry you feel so negative about it, though actually that's pretty much how I'd feel if it's No, the divisions, blame, and resentment, because I've seen what Labour and the Tories promise us. More years of austerity and budget-cutting, more money in their rich pals pockets.

If we vote Yes, I don't think the negotiations have to be acrimonious. Obv I understand that both sides will want the best for themselves, but I don't see why we can't all be grown-ups about it and reach reasonable compromises. It doesn't have to be a game of Beggar Thy Neighbour, and I'd hate it as much as you if things go that way. It would taint everything joyful about starting afresh.

And for me, a Yes vote would be joyful. A new opportunity to define our own nation, develop relations with our nextdoor neighbours that aren't clouded by historical resentments, to stand on our own two feet... I won't rant on, as you say neither of us will change our minds. :)

?

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

, don't mind if I do

[FergusSingsTheBlues]

I just can't wait for this all to be over. Socially, it's become a very divisive issue and regardless fnthe outcome well need to move on from this.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

Well we are completely united on anti-acrimonousness, which quite clearly isn't a word as my spellchecker is having a hissy fit.

Good to end on a positive, I am off to bed now.

[ShakesBootyFlabWobbles]

Anti-acrimoniousness even (spellcheck continues to have hissy fit).

[OldLadyKnowsSomething]

Onwards and upwards, Fergus, onwards and upwards. Things can only get better and all that...

Night, Shakes, been good chatting. :)

[CallMeExhausted]

I think there is one crucial point to attend to when comparing Scotland and Quebec - and that is language.

In Canada, there is very much an "us and them" mentality. We are officially a bilingual nation, however Quebec is the only exclusively French province. There are enclaves of French speaking people in all provinces - better represented in the North and East than the West, but definitely there...

However, quebec's French language is enforced by the Office De La Langue Français. Business owners are often fined if English is used on signage and is too large (must but significantly smaller than the French print) or English is used too much within the business itself. This doesn't extend to other languages (Italian, Chinese, etc) nearly as consistently, but stories like these are frequent and always cause an uproar.

Not only that, but separation not only would divide the country politically, but physically, as well.

Admittedly, I think that the relationship between Quebec and the rest of the country can best be described as the equivalent of the neighbours you tolerate for the sake of community harmony, but since they did that unspeakable thing no one really trusts them or would admit to openly liking them unless they were part of the conversation.

[OldLadyKnowsSomething]

Wow, that seriously puts the issue of Gaelic signage into perspective!