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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

who was unreasonable , wheelchair uses , other mum with pushchair or me.

189 replies

mummywithsmiles · 13/04/2014 20:17

Took daughter on bus today she is 14 weeks old and on oxygen ,the oxygen cannister is in the basket under pushchair.

when i got on there was already one pushchair.. I parked next to her.

2 stops later a man with a wheel chair got on.

bus driver asked if i could put pushchair down which i explained why i couldn't. Anyway other mum with toddler in pushchair refused to move and put hers down. I was then asked to get off the bus as wheelchairs have piority. I refused as the other women claimed she was on the bus first. In the end i got of the bus , she put hers down and wheelchair user got his place.

OP posts:
Misspixietrix · 14/04/2014 11:53

Me too YouTheCat and I'm speaking as a former double buggy pusher! Grin

hazeyjane · 14/04/2014 11:53

I know you were joking, chronically, but just in case - ds has a Tom cross stroller, because of his low muscle tone, which means he slumps in a standard buggy (or a mac major). The Tom cross has a tilt in space mechanism, which means that he has lateral supports even if it is lying down - unfortunately this means that it can't fold.

CrohnicallyChanging · 14/04/2014 11:54

twatty you mention that people who often go on the bus bought easily foldable buggies for that purpose. But do you know for sure that the person squeezing their monstrosity on the bus isn't doing it as a one off?

When Dd was younger I had a large, not easily foldable pushchair, I chose it specifically for dog walking so it had 3 large air filled wheels. However it wasn't easily manoeuvrable in small spaces and the large wheels did mean it took up a lot of space. It wasn't a problem for me as I rarely use buses and if I do, DD goes in the sling. However, I do suffer with health problems, one of which is a neurological condition. If I had a relapse then I wouldn't feel safe travelling with Dd in the sling, and wouldn't be allowed to drive, so would travel to hospital on the bus as the cheapest, easiest alternative. I would hate to think that I was being judged on my choice of pram for a one off journey, and don't have the money to spare to buy a second pram 'just in case'.

YouTheCat · 14/04/2014 11:58

Misspixie - also former double buggy pusher but back in the day when you couldn't get on a bus with a pushchair anyway.

CrohnicallyChanging · 14/04/2014 12:01

Like I said, I was joking with the 'why don't you get a mac major?' comment! Though now some of you have explained about your children's SN buggies, I am even more Shock that they are not treated as a wheelchair- I had in my head a basic bigger than usual stroller similar to a mac major, in which case some un knowledgable bus drivers might not be able to spot the difference between a standard stroller which might explain their lack of empathy. But the 'built like a tank' type with extra supports is so far removed from a standard pushchair that it wouldn't even occur to me to call it an 'SN buggy', if I was describing it to somebody I would definitely use the term 'wheelchair' so why can't the bus driver see that's what it is?

PS I know at Disney and possibly other similar theme parks they can issue you with a label for your pushchair that makes it clear to staff that you are using it as a wheelchair and therefore it is allowed in areas where pushchairs aren't usually (eg in queues). It would be nice if SN buggy users all over were issued with such labels, to make it absolutely clear to everybody that is what it is.

Misspixietrix · 14/04/2014 12:30

My whole purpose of getting one was so that I could walk home. 30-40mins with young ds and very poorly toddler who couldn't walk far at the time. Mine was quite slimline though (Mothercares own if anyone interested) only ever got into a discussion with one person when she wouldn't budge out the folded Down seats (other side was empty). I still folded it when I had to though. My Dsis on the other hand used to revel in folding other peoples EMPTY buggies down!

ikeaismylocal · 14/04/2014 13:04

*I think i may just avoid the issue and never leave the house.

I'm sorry you feel like that op, it was a horrible thing to happen, especially the way the other mum spoke about your baby.

Don't feel you can't go out, it is unlikely to happen often. Ds is 15 months old and I take him on the bus at least once a day and I have never seen a wheelchair wanting to get on the bus ( I would get off the bus for a wheelchair or a baby with oxygen, but I have never had to) it's really unfortunate that this happened so soon after you started to be able to take her out, hopefully it's the only time it will happen.

Enjoy your trips out, in my opinion it is so good for you and the baby, and congratulations on your new dd :)

mummywithsmiles · 14/04/2014 13:12

We live in Central London so its pretty busy .. I will carry on though. Makes things worse i live on the top floor with no lift lol ... That's a mission in itself

OP posts:
ProudAS · 14/04/2014 13:46

OP - get a letter from your consultant. I can't blame you for being embarrassed to go back on the bus but these bullies shouldn't be allowed to get away from it.

I don't think it's actually a legal requirement to fold buggies if a wheelchair wishes to board. AFAIK the legal requirement is for compliance with the equality act by the bus company. Notices on the bus, statements in the conditions of carriage etc do not constitute legal requirements and are breaking the law if they violate the equality act.

The Equality Act 2010 States
You're disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a "substantial" and "long-term" negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities.

"long-term" means 12 months or more

where an impairment is subject to treatment or correction, the impairment is to be treated as having a substantial adverse effect if, but for the treatment or correction

I'd certainly describe breathing as a normal daily activity. I don't know how long the OP's DD's condition is likely to last although if the condition is likely to last for over 12 months but improve due to treatment it still constitutes a disability. A broken leg is unlikely to count.

Discrimination can come in one of the following forms:

direct discrimination - treating someone with a protected characteristic less favourably than others

indirect discrimination - putting rules or arrangements in place that apply to everyone, but that put someone with a protected characteristic at an unfair disadvantage

harassment - unwanted behaviour linked to a protected characteristic that violates someone's dignity or creates an offensive environment for them

victimisation - treating someone unfairly because they've complained about discrimination or harassment

It can be lawful to have specific rules or arrangements in place, as long as they can be justified.

The policy of expecting buggies to be folded puts the OP and her DD at an unfair disadvantage in my book so is likely to constitute indirect discrimination. I'd question whether 'the space is intended for a wheelchair' is valid justification. What gives the person or people who designed the vehicle (or even the minister for transport) the right to say that a wheelchair user's journey is more important than the OP's journey AND possibly her DD's heath??? Waiting in the cold, not getting home in time to change oxygen bottle etc could be potentially life threatening.

hazeyjane · 14/04/2014 14:03

ProudAS the law has recently changed and it is a legal requirement for buggies to fold for wheelchairs.

spikeymikie · 14/04/2014 15:34

From what I understand the law states that disabled wheelchair users have priority over non disabled pram or pushchair users.

MiaowTheCat · 14/04/2014 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sunnydaysablazeinhope · 14/04/2014 18:00

Op

You had largest priority.
Wheelchair user
Other mum

Other mum folds or leaves. Wheelchair fits or if can't leaves. It says priority. Not has to have the space or else.

YouTheCat · 14/04/2014 18:02

Miaow, have you read the thread? It has all been pretty reasonable so far.

MoominsAreScary · 14/04/2014 18:03

Oaps with the trolleys are prerty good though, I saw 3 get on the other day and they managed to fit them on the opposit side to the wheelchair bay in the priority seating for oaps.

They did close them up though Grin

hazeyjane · 14/04/2014 18:11

Miaow, it might seem pointless to you but when you have to get off a bus with your 14 week old on oxygen, or miss an appointment because your dc is in a sn buggy because of a glitch in the law, then it matters.

SauvignonBlanche · 14/04/2014 18:11

it will end up with the disability bunch screeching
Fucking charming! Angry

hazeyjane · 14/04/2014 18:12

..and there has been no screeching by me or many others, I have 3 children one happens to be disabled. I am not part of any 'bunch'.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 14/04/2014 18:25

Polite debate and along comes one with the 'SN bunch/brigade/clan' again! So fucking offensive in an otherwise fine thread. There's always one!

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/04/2014 19:11

I dont think I have seen auch an arsey post ever in history of MN.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/04/2014 19:12

People hardly ever say ban all pushchairs.

Maybe once ever.

How offensive.

ProudAS · 14/04/2014 19:17

Hazeyjane could you post the link to the piece of legislation.

hazeyjane · 14/04/2014 19:38

This is the regulation which applies to the Stagecoach bus company. I don't know about other bus companies - but as it states 'absolute priority by law' I guess it must apply nationally.

Andrewofgg · 14/04/2014 19:44

It’s not just about the sodding law, is it? My guess, and it’s my trade, is that the person who is on the bus and has paid a fare trumps the person who wants to get on so that while s/he can be required to fold the buggy – if neither adult not child is disabled or SN – s/he can’t be required to get off.

Now: is OP’s child disabled? Depends how long the problems are likely to last. And Broken Legman? The same, although of course if it’s just a broken leg and an otherwise healthy adult it’s not likely to last twelve months. And of course nobody else on the bus knows the answer.

But I would like to hope that if OP had been one stop from destination, and her LO peacefully sleeping, and Broken Leg had wanted to get on and there was just physically not room for both she would have got off and walked the extra few minutes. I’m fairly confident that she would because MN is self-selected to be full of people who behave properly to each other even when the law does not so require.

How about a striped badge meaning I’m a compassionate, decent caring member of our species and I will do what I reasonably can to help you in any way that I can see you need - would that help?

rootypig · 14/04/2014 19:45

Proud / Hazey it is not legislation but a judicial interpretation of the requirements of the Equality Act 2010 - I posted the case upthread

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-24214346