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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

who was unreasonable , wheelchair uses , other mum with pushchair or me.

189 replies

mummywithsmiles · 13/04/2014 20:17

Took daughter on bus today she is 14 weeks old and on oxygen ,the oxygen cannister is in the basket under pushchair.

when i got on there was already one pushchair.. I parked next to her.

2 stops later a man with a wheel chair got on.

bus driver asked if i could put pushchair down which i explained why i couldn't. Anyway other mum with toddler in pushchair refused to move and put hers down. I was then asked to get off the bus as wheelchairs have piority. I refused as the other women claimed she was on the bus first. In the end i got of the bus , she put hers down and wheelchair user got his place.

OP posts:
TyneTeas · 14/04/2014 00:09

Hmmm, difficult

While I can see someone with a broken leg using a wheelchair (assuming only condition and temporary) would have restricted mobility, I would doubt they would come under the DDA (as not long-term) www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010 which is likely what is behind the policy for prioritisation of wheelchair users, whereas if the condition that necessitates O2 use etc by the OP's dd is expected to be long-term, then that would (I think) be covered

So it may be that while the policy to prioritise wheelchair users is meant to be DDA compliant, in this case in practice, otherwise...?

coldwater1 · 14/04/2014 05:25

In this instance i think your baby was a priority over the wheelchair user and they should have had to wait for the next bus as you were on it first. I'm sorry you had to get off the bus.

ChasedByBees · 14/04/2014 06:59

So sorry Mummy, they shouldn't hae made you get off the bus. I would complain. Who called your baby the wired baby?! That is outrageous! Did the bus driver quiz you on your baby?

ProudAS · 14/04/2014 07:05

You should have had priority OP.

Whilst accommodating a passenger with a broken leg may be good customer service I doubt whether the man had a disability as defined by the equality act.

Your DD on the other hand clearly needs use of the space due to her disability. What if it had been a cold day? How detrimental could that have been to your DD?

Regardless of what the bus company's conditions of carriage say they do not override the equality act. I don't doubt that the policy was put in place with the best of intentions but this is probably an example of indirect discrimination as it puts you and DD at substantial disadvantage due to her disability.

Morgause · 14/04/2014 07:06

Morally, of course you shouldn't have had to get off but the driver was in a very difficult position.

It isn't a designated disabled space it's specifically a wheelchair space. The law is unequivocal about that. Wheelchairs, currently, trump everything, including SN buggies. To be fair it would be difficult to vary that, the drivers get enough grief as it is. It's very simple as it stands. You can't have people arguing about who has the greater need every time there is a conflict.

It would be unlikely to happen on our buses because we have a wheelchair space and 3 buggy spaces. That's what's needed, more space for wheeled transport.

ProudAS · 14/04/2014 07:10

OP the bus company are not allowed to practice discrimination regardless of who the space is intended for.

Their policy puts you and your DD at substantial disadvantage because of her disability - it's almost certainly discrimination.

spikeymikie · 14/04/2014 08:01

A wheelchair is a chair with wheels that is being used by a disabled person. A sn buggy fits this description as does the op's pram.

spikeymikie · 14/04/2014 08:01

A wheelchair is a chair with wheels that is being used by a disabled person. A sn buggy fits this description as does the op's pram.

hazeyjane · 14/04/2014 08:19

I agree Spiky, but unfortunately that isn't what the regulations say. I have emailed our bus company again for clarification.

AreWeThereYeti · 14/04/2014 08:29

OP, I am not going to say YABU but that's because I don't think anyone was - I also think it was just an unfortunate incident.

Even if the guy in the wheelchair 'just' (Confused) had a broken leg the bus may have been his only way of being able to get home. At least you were able to get home by walking.

There are plenty of physically very capable people who use wheelchairs and plenty of very incapacitated people who use pushchairs (either the pushers or the children). It's not possible to assess each one on their individual merits each time there is a clash of need on a bus.

I do think that people using SN buggies should have the same weighting as people using wheelchairs.

spikeymikie · 14/04/2014 08:37

Ask them what they define a wheelchair to be. I wouldn't be getting off. They are discriminating against people with learning difficulties as they make up the bulk of sn buggy users, particularly the older users.

Original poster
mummywithsmiles · 14/04/2014 09:05

He had someone pushing him though just like my daughter had me pushing her.

the only diff was one was a wheelchair and one was a pushchair.

OP posts:
fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/04/2014 09:08

The mum with toddler should have immediately folded even if she got on first.

That is a lame argument from her..not impressed.

Ok she did eventually. .when forced to but she should not have whinged.

Yes you should have been given priority. Can you write to bus company and get some sort of letter asking drivers to allow you to use disabled space without quibble?

Nennypops · 14/04/2014 09:08

Whilst accommodating a passenger with a broken leg may be good customer service I doubt whether the man had a disability as defined by the equality act.

But we don't know that it was 'just' a broken leg, do we? If it was there's a good chance that he would have been on crutches. He may well have had other disabilities, e.g. paraplegia, brittle bone disease, arthritis, heart or lung problems.

But I agree that OP's child should have had priority, simply because she was also disabled and was there first.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/04/2014 09:11

If you can't walk with a broken leg so need a wheelchair to get around of COURSE it is a real disability. .just..hopefully a temporary one.

Morgause · 14/04/2014 09:19

It's a wheelchair space, designed for adult wheelchairs. Not a disability space. The law is quite clear on that. And bus companies say wheelchairs trump everything else.

I'm not saying it's morally right but them's the rules.

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2014 09:22

Crikey, I can't believe the guy in the wheelchair made a baby on oxygen get off the bus for him. Surely when he saw what was happening he should have said something?

Rainbow · 14/04/2014 09:29

If I have read this right had the other mother folded before you got off then there would have been room for everyone? if that is the case then the other mother was being totally unreasonable. If that isn't the case then it is a tricky on. As you have stated you were in a position to walk home. The wheel chair user obviously wasn't in a position to do that but you were on the bus first and your DD should also count as a disabled person. As for the other mother she shouldn't have even come into the equation, she should have folded as all the posters and notices on the buses say. TfL do train there drivers and the guidelines for them are:

“Wheelchair users are to be given access to the wheelchair space even if it is occupied by other passengers or buggies. Use the iBus automated announcement to make it clear that the wheelchair space is needed. If necessary, politely but firmly ask the buggy owners to move or fold their buggies to let the wheelchair user into the area as this is the only safe place for them to travel. Explain you will give them the time they need to do this and be patient and polite. Do not move off until they are re-positioned.
Sometimes it is possible for a wheelchair and an unfolded buggy to share the space. You should allow this provided the wheelchair user is in the correct position and the buggy does not block the gangway.’

AskBasil · 14/04/2014 09:30

Sounds like the rules are unreasonable tbh.

quietbatperson · 14/04/2014 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hazeyjane · 14/04/2014 09:31

Rainbow, the op stated the wheelchair user had a companion who was pushing him.

spikeymikie · 14/04/2014 09:43

So what exactly is a wheelchair? It isn't about age because children use wheelchairs and it isn't about about folding because many wheelchairs fold. When we have been in places that ban buggys, I refer to it as a wheelchair and this has never been questioned.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 14/04/2014 09:48

It is partly about age. Babies dont tend to use wheelchairs.

hazeyjane · 14/04/2014 09:49

When ds was still in a standard buggy, I had a disabled child sticker attached to the buggy, but we still had to fold once when a woman with a baby in a pram got on. The driver said that as ds was older we should fold. It was a nightmare, we were on our way to an opthamology appointment, ds was nearly 2, but still not walking, he was asleep so I had to wake him up, he then screamed for the whole journey and he was in such a state by the time we got to hospital that the appointment had to be rescheduled.

Ds is now in a sn buggy, it doesn't fold, so we would have to get off if a wheelchair user boarded, which doesn't really make sense to me.

Morgause · 14/04/2014 09:53

Wheelchairs are very heavy, which is one reason they need a designated space. There is a padded upright back rest, a bar at the side and the chair has to be right up against it and the brakes on.

This is in case there is an accident or the bus brakes suddenly. A loose wheelchair could do a lot of damage.