To think if a child starts school unable to do these things they have some kind of SN? and a checklist won't help!!

[brighteyedbusytailed]

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10741986/Ofsted-all-parents-should-get-a-checklist-telling-them-how-to-raise-their-children.html]]

I think his list is entirely reasonable. Most children can do all those things.
Reception children sometimes have problems wiping themselves.
Some children have minor problems with some of his list. But most children can do most of his list.
Ds2 did a bit.
And I do know about SN.
But I can't understand the uproar. What he us saying is basic common sense.

Some of you are deliberately missing the point.

This isn't a list of things you must be able to do before you start school.

It's a guide for parents as to what the average child should be able to do.

Some children will be able to do much more than on the list. Some much less. However it's complete bullshit to say that it's wrong to let people know the average expectations because some children will not meet them.

I actually feel quite strongly about this. It's not about SN diagnosis it's about setting milestones which the majority (Scottish government I think are using 85 per cent for their target setting for early years) of children should be meeting.

A lack of inclusiveness would come if it was expected that all children should be meeting the target and their was exclusion etc if they didn't.

But what's the point of the list if nothing is done when a child is lacking the skills to do much on the list? I was told "oh your DS should be able to do this and this... when I pointed out that he couldn't, then I was fobbed off repeatedly and told to just wait and see."

If they're going to make a list of what a child should be able to generally do, then they should also be putting a programme in place that specifies a specific route that parents can then take if the child is able to meet that list. A route that will actually mean something is done - some type of additional support or referral for assessment if needed.

Otherwise, it's just another source of frustration for the parents of children who are struggling as it's "well, they can't meet this list, but nothing's going to be done right now."

It's not about children who are unable to do these things. It's not even about individual children tbh.

The scottish government actually have a quality improvement group in place looking at outcomes for children which considers the drivers and interventions which support or deter reaching these goals, have a look here:

www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00414070.pdf

Again with the recognition that not all children will reach them but that with additional support in some ways most will.

Again, IMO there is no point in making some kind of official list of "things that children are expected to be able to do" without some plan of where parents can go to get support and assistance if their child CANNOT do those things in that time scale.

It IS about children who are unable to do these things. It absolutely is.

Again with the recognition that not all children will reach them but that with additional support in some ways most will.

And the point again, is that there is not appropriate additional support set up. So those children will NOT receive additional support. What good is saying "oh look, your child should be able to do these things now, but they can't... hmmm... gosh... okay.... well, what a shame" because nothing is then done. I can't tell you how many parents I have seen that have gone to medical personnel (mostly GPs) and said "something's not right - I'm concerned because they seem to be behind the other children their age" and so on, and the GPs just fob them off with "oh boys develop slower" or "all children develop at different rates" and so on. Meanwhile precious time where support could have been very helpful is simply wasted.

So no.. the list is USELESS unless there is a corresponding plan of action parents can take if their child is not up to par with that list.

Maybe the list will be used as prior attainment data to inform how much funding to delegate to schools, which they can spend on the initial outlay (up to 6k) for additional support?

Schools will have to deal with more additional needs 'in house' since the SEN reform.

I think a lot of the 'child professionals' i.e teachers etc don't really anticipate that kids may react differently with parents/staff.., theres a teacher my DS1 is really good for and another who he's a bit ambivalent with, purely down to how he responds to them, I wonder how much interpreted bad behaviour is just 'I don't like you'

Agree with you there bright.

'I think a lot of the 'child professionals' i.e teachers etc don't really anticipate that kids may react differently with parents/staff'

No, that never occurs to us.

I didn't say never, just pinted out that some are very quick to put the onus on the parents when maybe the child doesn't like you them much so doesn't respond to them very well, just seems to be a lot of parent bashing.

*pointed

When a parent posts on here about their child's behavioural issues at home, one of the first things that gets asked is 'How are they at school?' because children often behave differently with different people and settings.

Grandparents I've noticed is another factor, my DS1 is actually ASD but its markedly better for his GP's

Not bashing anyone, but often the key difference with neglect or SN issues is that if it's a matter of the child not having been given the right environment to thrive, a good EY environment means that they acquire those skills relatively quickly when taught them. Whereas an underlying, undx SN can mean that it takes more to support that child than just straight teaching of skills. A more individual, tailored approach.

Goblin Or it could be once the professionals are motivated into looking for success, because they have spent time targeting support, rather than looking for problems, they then see the success and encourage it.

Sometimes a child will not present with the same difficulties at home and it is the school setting that does not suit, for whatever reason.

So much of teacher assessment is subjective.....a lot of EYFS targets, for example, are not absolutes.

My DS was like that, very difficult at school, a delight at home.
Got his dx at 8 yo.

Goblin I don't disbelieve you. This does not mean your experience with your DS is representative, of everyone finding themselves in a similar situation, though.