To think if a child starts school unable to do these things they have some kind of SN? and a checklist won't help!!

[brighteyedbusytailed]

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10741986/Ofsted-all-parents-should-get-a-checklist-telling-them-how-to-raise-their-children.html]]

MrTumble: Agree that those who clearly need it should receive help. I remember at least a few of my school mates having extra tuition because of dyslexia. Re: Your DS - I think being one of the oldest is very good and you have ade a wise choice. I wish my son was one of the oldest, but he is going to be somewhere in the middle/younger lot.

And the walking - it was a rather small school right in the heart of the town, so the vast majority of kids lived within a mile of the school..

DS's primary is just around the corner from us. He wouldn't even need to cross any roads to get there, but not sure whether I would send him there alone even at 6 or 7.. Or is it even allowed?

Toys apparently schools make their own rules about that but most don't let them until year 6! :o That is what I have read on here and heard from UK friends, but some schools may allow it earlier. Maddness where no busy roads are involved. A bit off the checklist subject (except our checklist does include knowing how to cross the road, and how to get on and off buses safely - but a police officer goes into KiGa to teach the potential school starters traffic safety anyway - not just a talk but they all spend most of a morning practicing under his/her supervision).

Dear god.. year 6, MrTumble! Our back gardens are next to each other, though. Wonder whether he would be allowed to jump the fence (would have to make some sort of small ladder, though) alone to get to school?

(disclaimer: I wouldn't really let him because the school fence is really high with spikes on top )

I remember the road safety talks in kindy, as well. The campaigns for drivers to look out for school kids are also on telly a lot in Autumn.

We can't ignore the plight of children whose development is stunted through neglect for fear of 'offending' the parents of children with sn. Those who are born with difficulties can be helped with education focused to address their needs, those who are raised in circumstances so detrimental to their development that they're effectively disabled by bad parenting need state intervention in their family.

Olympia a checklist isn't going to help unless it triggers some kind of further referrals though, is it? The article reads as if the check list is simply going to be handed to parents.

Olympia you are forgetting the schools / nurseries / pre schools may also be at fault.

So might the standards, in terms of what can be expected. Developmental research has shown, statically, not being able to achieve all the things on the checklist is not that rare...

The boys' school allows kids to walk home unsupervised from KS2. Large village, lots of not especially busy roads (but enough careless drivers and tanked up boy racers to make most parents suitably cautious). Some kids do walk home with their parents right until year 5 or 6, simply for the natter. Others get eased in in year 3 or 4. I know a few who start by meeting them at certain roads, then move further out until they're more confident.

Some kids are always but always driven, even less than 1/4 mile. Toys - one kid used to get driven from just beyond the end of the school field. That eventually ended after he complained about wanting to walk enough time. I suspect the poor boy wanted to walk with his mates and got no end of ribbing for it.

Olympia a checklist isn't going to help unless it triggers some kind of further referrals though, is it?

This is my problem with it. It's a good idea, if it's going to be backed up by referrals and help if a child doesn't tick all the boxes, but if it's just a list to highlight that some parents are a bit shit, then what's the point? It could be a great starting point for education professionals to do some early interventions with children with SN or AN, or to do some extra work with children who's parents are a bit rubbish, or even to refer children who are obviously neglected to SS.

As for this checklist, I'm suspecting it'll be filed by many along with the "healthy eating" leaflets recommending low fat spreads for small children.

There would be a point to the check list if it were administered by a Health Visitor. When my dc's were small, HV's were well-trained and well-resourced. I relied on them a lot. They knew the family and visited right up to starting school, which was later in those days.

Now there seems to be a void between the early months and school with only the GP and concerned neighbours picking up the slack, unless the children are in childcare.

ouryve: DS is always going to be getting gold stars, or whatever rewards they hand out now, for walking to school. There will be no need to mention the shortness of the walk .

I started school unable to do several things on that list - I'm quite severely dyspraxic. I attended a mainstream school, learnt with support from home and school and graduate university this summer. Although
I do struggle with laces still!

I also know of someone who couldn't use her school toilet, wet her knickers every single day or worse for about a year. She's now a highly qualified doctor.

I'd reckon that checklist will result in people who have the potential not being able to reach it effectively, because they're either not allowed to start school or they're confined to special units etc.

I'm all for disabled children having the best education possible - but that checklist is far, far too narrow and seems to disregard all personal circumstances.

I think the article misses the mark, and I think singling out poorer families is not appropriate. But, I don't think that having giving parents an idea of standard developmental milestones is such a bad idea. In Australia, all parents are given a little folder and it has a section for each Maternal and Child Health Nurse (MCHN) visit (like health visitors in the UK). It's written along the lines of "By age x I should be ........" and "Please tell the MCHN if I am not ........".

I don't mind the idea of suggestions for children to work on before starting school, possibly with some ideas for alternatives if the child is not at that level yet. Things like teaching how to tie their shoelaces or sending them in shoes with velcro tabs if they aren't able to do so. Making sure children who aren't reliably toilet trained have spare underwear in their bag, etc.

The problem with this check list is that the parents who will diligently be checking that their child ticks all the boxes are the parents who don't need it as they will do all these things anyway, as any half decent parent would do.
Sadly the families who need to be told this are the one who will use the leaflet as roach material.

I work in a primary school as a reception teacher, I also work in nursery. I have known children start nursery who cannot talk in a full sentence simply because no one has talked to them before.

As hulababy has already posted the checklist isn't measurable, but I'm sure the readers of the telegraph (and the DM) are already clutching their pearls over it.

Actually I think this is an entirely reasonable list. Primary teachers have a lot of kids in the class, with bigger ratios than daycare/nursery and don't have the time to be teaching poo wiping. If your child is not able to do these things then:
a) they have SN and need assistance and school should work with you to get appropriate statements etc to attract TA funding
b) if they don't have SN and are just very young for their year and just not ready, don't send them
c) if they are the right age and still lack basic understanding of "No means NO!" and sitting and listening, then you should question what you have been doing with them for the last 5 years. Maybe they need to go to daycare/nursery to learn these basic social skills.

I feel the flames.

I would have loved a checklist if it meant that DS SN were diagnosed more quickly (took 2 years) and that he had the help and support he needed to flourish in school (ha fucking ha).

DS has ADHD and still has trouble with the first 4 at age 7 :(

Athrawes

Thing is schools need to step up to the mark and actually cope with a larger proportion of what people would term SN.

They need to be prepared to outlay an initial 6K before additional funds can be applied for. 6K can buy approximately 12 hours 1 to 1 support. The cost goes down if a TA / HLTA is supporting a group of children.

Every additional need which does not exceed this cost in terms of getting the needs met is termed a 'low level' need.

So if a child does not fulfill every requirement of the checklist, regardless of parental ability or diagnosis of SN, schools will still have to meet that child's needs out their own pockets.

This means that a child's needs will have to be met initially by the school, be it poo wiping or anything else. Schools have to be able to demonstrate they have spent the additional 6k before they can apply for additional funds. There is no get out clause.

I actually like this aspect of holding schools accountable for how they spend additional funds, it prevents distortion of need in order to gain or maintain funding. Having had my child receive a Statement of SEN, for quite a high level of funding but seeing the lack of transparency over where the funding was spent and over his progression in terms of severity of need was extremely frustrating. Thankfully now he has received a discharge from NHS services and his Statement has ceased, due to progressive improvements. Some SNs are simply developmental delays and a child can 'catch up'.

Athrawes

...don't send them

Sadly parents of children with SN are likely to to have as much need to work as anyone else. Someone would have to pay for their care somewhere along the line. Added to this do you not think children with SNs have the same rights to an education?

I am a supporter of being able to keep children back a year (and still start at the "beginning", not keep them out and then have to jump in at the deep end and join the class they would have neen in anyway) having done it with my DC2 I wish in some/ many ways I could have for DC1 as well. However they could both do everything on that check list at 3... and everything on our very different school readiness check lust at the school starting age here, of the Sept following your 6th birthday (or the month of your 6th birthday for Sept borns).

I meant to say there is more to being ready than a checklist...

Capsium. Athrawes said if they are still too young and DONT have SN don't send them

If she said they do have SN then school should support them.

She doesn't deserve the flaming.