there is way too much pressure to EBF?

[ArtFine]

Just that really.

I've had a difficult journey with BF, and when I look back I know it would have been better and much more healthier for my baby (forget me) if I hadn't breastfed. She has CMPA and other allergies (and had awful silent reflux etc), and this would have been picked up very early on had she been bottle fed, and saved her a lot of pain and tears.

Why is there so much pressure to EBF? Why is it always assumed that breast milk is THE best?

What's the harm for example in giving one bottle of formula per day so that babies get used to the bottle?

Mini, you need to read my post properly, I said I was grateful for the support I got and happy that it enabled me to succeed bfing my DS!

Don't - you are perfectly entitled to your opinion that how a baby is fed makes no difference.

But HCP have to give advice and information based on up do date medical evidence, not on the basis of anecdote.

You do appreciate this don't you?

Sorry Noble

I think I was knee jerk responding to the phrase 'grabbing my breasts'!

mini. I wrote it that way because it seems I had the same experience as many of those complaining, but in my case it was the right approach and it succeeded in establishing bfing. Maybe the others see it as a bad thing because they went through it all and ended up formula feeding anyway.

Stuck - either your dp is a bit thick or was deliberately distorting the information from the NHS breastfeeding session. I have observed many breastfeeding classes and you NEVER hear midwives talking in absolutes about the benefits of breastfeeding or of the potential risk to breastfeeding of using formula in the early days.

The midwife would have saiid something along the line of 'breastfeeding reduces the risk of breast cancer', and 'giving a bottle of formula can damage a mothers chances of successfully establishing breastfeeding'. She may saiid 'breastfeeding shouldn't hurt'.

This is an entirely different message than 'if you don't breastfeed you'll get cancer', 'giving a bottle means you can't breast-feed' and 'breastfeeding never hurts', which your DP took away from the session (or maybe he didn't - maybe you chose to interpret his words in that way because it suited you to believe his attitude to breastfeeding was wrongheaded). But typical that you are insisting that is is the message given in the classes by the NHS/NCT.

OP, I think asking why breastmilk is better is very much like asking why fresh food is better than processed, it's a no-brainer. However, I completely agree that where their are issues like the ones you were having, there needs to be a balanced approach, and I'm sure your child wouldn't have been harmed by a bottle of formula a day.

mini, I actually do appreciate that, BUT I also don't put all of my faith in advice that is often conflicting. It worked for me, my child is fine, that's the important part. In noble's case, she was able to breastfeed, her child is also fine (I assume) and that's what's important.

Unless a child is underfed or malnourished, I don't see how it's anybody else's bloody business what they're fed.

Noble - I think many women find breastfeeding physically and emotionally overwhelming and DON'T WANT TO DO IT. I think people in this situation are often desperate to find a way of bowing out gracefully, and bloody pesky midwives insisting on going to the ends of the earth to help and encourage them to do breastfeed - well it's not going to be welcome is it.

I suspect the bizarre number of accounts of extreme breastfeeding trauma on these boards is evidence not of the fact that breastfeeding often is intrinsically horrific, but of the desperation of many women who are culturally entrenched formula feeders to find a solid emotional justification for not breastfeeding.

Honestly - why can't more people just say 'I don't like it' and 'I'm not going to do it'. It'd be far easier for everyone and would free midwives up to help women who really want and need their help and who aren't going to bad mouth them afterwards and accuse them of bullying.

Don't - childhood and infant nutrition will always be a public health issue, particularly when there is evidence that formula feeding results in increased rates of hospital admissions and GP appointments for babies.

mini I think you've done really well on this thread. Good points.

Apart from the bit with misreading nobles post

I agree with RealAmanda mini has put some excellent points across. I also agree that it is everyones business how children are fed when it has an impact on our health care service

mini you appear to be rather rigid in your thinking. The simple fact is that some women can't breastfeed, whether the reason is physical or emotional or whatever, whether or not they intended to. And in that case, formula is the right decision.

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should try (particularly given the ridiculous price of formula) but it's not a big deal if it doesn't work. This is why we have formula FFS!

Actually, the fact is actually that very very few women can't bf. nothing like as many as don't

The simple fact is that some women can't breastfeed, whether the reason is physical or emotional or whatever, whether or not they intended to. And in that case, formula is the right decision.

No one is disputing this, what is being disputed is the implication that, when people who want to breastfeed find they can't, rather than deal with their guilt they aim it towards a "pressure" that probably doesn't exist, it just seems like it does when a woman feels she has failed. What seems like pressure to one person is encouragement to another - which is fine, but it's not fair for people to be labelled 'Breastapo/bullies/bad midwives' because of that one persons perception.

I did point out that everyone should try to breastfeed. It's just not a massive problem if it doesn't work. Because we have formula. That's the point of it.

But if they are "giving it a go" don't they deserve to receive support and information that's evidence- based? That's honest?

It'snot good enough to keep supporting the myths that continue about breastfeeding.

Support should be improved, but there shouldn't be so much pressure that women feel guilty for not being able to or for choosing not to. Kinda like "breast is best, but don't worry if you don't manage to breastfeed. It's not the end of the world." Because it's not.

Support should be improved, but there shouldn't be so much pressure that women feel guilty for not being able to or for choosing not to

But guilt comes from within - no one can make you feel guilty, thats something that you can chose to feel or not. Given, things can stir up bad feelings, which lead to guilt, but guilt itself is a purely internal emotion iyswim. And with regard to breastfeeding, how exactly do you strike the right balance between informing and not trying to guilt-trip? Guilt is also subjective, so to one person a "breast is best" poster can make them feel bad, whilst for another it wouldn't bother them.

I think a message like "breast is best, but don't worry if you don't manage to breastfeed. It's not the end of the world." is quite defeatist and sets women up to fail - when I was pregnant there was always a looming message that BFing is so so hard and you'll probably not crack it. It's everywhere, and I think HCPs need to convey a positive, yet reaistic, attitude

I think minifingers won this one.

I didn't feel any pressure to bf. what I did find was a lack of support to help me bf.

In hospital DS didn't feed for 12 hours because I couldn't get him to latch. I had an HCA who popped in once overnight and told me to 'just put him on'. DH repeatedly asked for help but we were told they were too busy.

Instead of having this newborn sleepy baby (as everyone tells you newborns are) I had a newborn who spent the first two days screaming because he was hungry. He lost 9% of weight in two days.

He hated latching, screamed and arched his head away every time. Eventually after a week I went to a fantastic bf clinic who helped me. By that point I was barely making any milk. I tried to feed and express every two hours for four weeks and still never made any milk! It never came in.

The midwives at the clinic eventually decided that because I'd haemorrhaged after birth my body couldn't make enough milk and recover. I was also eventually diagnosed with an under active thyroid, which if anyone knows, if untreated inhibits milk production.

It was the most stressful and exhausting four weeks of my life. I was so pale I was grey.

I felt like a failure because I felt like it was my choice to bf and I couldn't, so that choice was taken away from me. As it was DS ended up with a cmpa so was put on a milk free formula. FF was such a relief after everything, but it wasn't something I wanted to do.

I worry about not being able to feed DC.2.

Some of the posts on these threads always disappoint me, like some of us are making up struggling, as an excuse to ff.

Thefabulousidiot If you've been on the receiving end of bullying tactics when feeling physically and emotionally vulnerable then that's probably why you might use the expressions. And whilst in the depth of PND I probably used are worse. (Advised by well meaning midwife to attend NCT group for support). I will say no more they were smug, judgemental, worthy, hairy-legged, sandal-wearing, pasta-knitting bitches

When ds1 was born I had 2 very close friends, our babies were born weeks apart. My ds was ff, their dc were bf. Their dc were, it seemed, forever at the doctors surgery with some infection or other. When I looked after their dc the routine inevitably involved giving them antibiotics from the fridge. Apart from some eye drops, ff son never needed antibiotics until he was 6.

I can count on one hand the times each of my ff grown up children have visited the gp (excluding injuries).

Just saying.

EBF means baby can't be left with other people for long periods of time, or even short periods of time, this means it does not appeal to mothers who like to go on honeymoons without their babies or long hen weekends when their babies are very small. EBF means baby is not a clockwork baby and this is inconvenient for some mothers who prefer baby to make a small a dent in their lives as possible. EBF babies do not sleep though, this does not suit mothers who didn't realise that small babies wake at night. At this point said mother sometimes gives up and takes one of two possible routes, 1. acknowledge they can't be arsed and they would be happier not EBF and nevermind how that is for baby, or 2. make up some cock and bull reason as to why they can't do it. There is a tiny minority of women who can't BF for legitimate reasons who would dearly have loved to and point 1 and 2 must wind them up a treat.

Wow monkeynuts, what delightfully supportive advice. I sure hope you dole that out to new mums you know, I bet it goes down a treat

"mini you appear to be rather rigid in your thinking. The simple fact is that some women can't breastfeed, whether the reason is physical or emotional or whatever, whether or not they intended to. And in that case, formula is the right decision."

Arf!

I'm not in any way rigid. I acknowledge that for some women breastfeeding is simply not something they can find a way of doing. A small number for physical reasons, a much larger number for emotional reasons. But YOU have to acknowledge that it's a cultural thing - it's not intrinsic to breastfeeding per se. The truth is that the factors most likely to determine whether you find it emotionally feasible to breastfeed for more than a few weeks aren't your personality, relationship, and other children, but are your age, your ethnicity and your education.

And of course formula is the ONLY other option if you are not able or willing to give your baby your own milk. Only a doofus would argue with this point.