there is way too much pressure to EBF?

[ArtFine]

Just that really.

I've had a difficult journey with BF, and when I look back I know it would have been better and much more healthier for my baby (forget me) if I hadn't breastfed. She has CMPA and other allergies (and had awful silent reflux etc), and this would have been picked up very early on had she been bottle fed, and saved her a lot of pain and tears.

Why is there so much pressure to EBF? Why is it always assumed that breast milk is THE best?

What's the harm for example in giving one bottle of formula per day so that babies get used to the bottle?

I think there is pressure, I definitely experienced it. I'd had an overnight labour with complications, they kept me in the next night for observation, but they chucked my family out when visiting hours ended. So I was on my own, an exhausted 20yo with my first baby, who refused to latch, and some snotty nurse telling me that I HAD to breastfeed. It was hell.

At about 2am (so after the shift change) I was in bits, sobbing my heart out and desperately trying to feed DS. New nurse took one look at me and went and got a bottle of formula. She insisted I get some sleep while she fed him, did the same for the next feed, and I am forever grateful that she did. She was brilliant, told me that it doesn't matter how babies get fed, as long as they get fed.

I'll try to breastfeed the next one, but I have no problem moving to formula if it doesn't work. It did DS no harm, and I think a new mother's mental health is more important than what kind of milk you give your baby.

Yes I know it was written toomuch
My point was that "artificial feeding/ AF" is not a term she coined just to write nasty things in your red book.
It's the term that is/ was used in all the documentation about how the baby is being fed. The red book is just part of it, your copy as it were. Most of the records would be kept and completed elsewhere, and they're all standardised. The term is not hers, it's widely used in medical notes.
I understand that for you it was obviously a term you disliked, but she didn't make it up.

I also can't see a problem with the word 'artificial'. Babies are being fed milk not naturally engineered for them - that is artificial, its not an insult by any means.

In my maternity notes it said "BF, mixed feeding, or bottle feeding with formula" so maybe it's different areas.

I don't usually partake in these threads as it's always the same - the double standard that BF experiences can be slagged off or scoffed at, but any criticism for FF is seen as being unacceptable; the many myths that come to light (a BF baby cannot be overfed for example); and the blatant way some people clearly judge themselves for their feeding choices but choose to manifest it by pointing the finger at BFers/HCPs etc. mini and fabulous have made some very good points on this particular thread

And I have no dout that there are bad ggs, everywhere.
But writing "artificial feeding" is not, IMO, an example of bad-egg behaviour.

I don't know why you think I "want" to believe anything about people.
I was just explaining the documentation/ terminology so you could see it wasn't a judgement thing from an individual, but just a common way of recording the feeding method.

Maybe the fact that it sounds a bit "loaded" is one of the reasons it was changed and seems now to be "breastfeeding" or "not breastfeeding"
Is that better?i don't know.

It makes me to hear people who persisted with breastfeeding - but in retrospect wishing they hadn't - blaming health professionals for a decision that only they themselves could have made.

^ Also this. In what other part of life would we willingly put ourselves through absolute hell on earth several times a day when there is an adequate alternative to what we're doing?! If it is sending you to the point where you're ill, who gives a shiny shite what your MIL says, own your choice, give yourself a pat on the back for the effort you did make and move on from it. Nobody likes a martyr

Yes Chippy

I willingly put myself through it because I firmly believed breast feeding would work out in the end and I just had to keep going. Just because there's an alternative it doesn't mean it's an alternative that everyone wants to turn to.

I thought that chippy's point was that it was erroneous to "blame" other ppl for one's choosing to bf.
Not that ff would or should be a viable alternative for everyone.

I persisted because I believed I was doing the best thing for my baby not trying to be a martyr...

So - from the posts on this board I suspect the approach to breastfeeding many of you would like to see is this:

Women should be told breastfeeding doesn't work for lots of people. They should be told ANTENATALLY that it hurts and that it's normal to hurt. They should be told that they may get mastitis, thrush, etc etc. Midwives should be careful not to be too positive about breastfeeding or say much about the risks or drawbacks for the baby of mothers using formula milk as this will be interpreted as guilt tripping, pressure and bullying by women who don't wish to breastfeed or who can't breastfeed.

HP should tell mothers it doesn't matter if they don't or can't breastfeed as it probably won't make any difference to their baby anyway.

If a mother is struggling with breastfeeding HP shouldn't encourage her to continue, even if she has said she wants to, because mothers often find it hard to admit they don't wish to breastfeed and it's probably safer for the midwife to assume this may be the case.

Do a lot of people here have shares in Milupa/Wyeth or something.

I suspect some women won't be happy until breastfeeding has died out altogether.

Don't - if you had told the midwife that you were going to breastfeed then you had to breastfeed the baby. If you had said that you were going to bottlefeed then you had to bottlefeed the baby. Babies need to be fed. You were in bed I assume, lying down. Why would it be harder for you to hold your baby in your arms and put him/her to the breast than to hold him/her in your arms and bottlefeed? I don't get it. Maybe the midwife was abrupt or came across as uncaring in her tone of voice, but the problem was her communication skills, not the fact that she told you you needed to put your baby to the breast.

Yes mini that sounds about right

I might have misinterpreted chippy'slast post but I'm not sure she was saying that finding

RealAmanda - yes that's what I was trying to get across

Mini - very well put, there's a great article somewhere which states how illogical it is to refrain from educating people on facts in case it hurts a few peoples feelings, I will try to find it.

mini - I like your post above, it shows how bleak the picture is. It's sad to think breast feeding may die out but who knows.....I don't know why it's such a taboo. It is better than formula and it should be encouraged - it isn't something that should be hidden away for fear of upsetting someone.

I has the midwives in hospital grabbing my boobs, expressing into a syringe, endlessly latching and relatching a baby who wouldn't latch properly, never mentioning formula even when it had been going on for hours.

I'm bloody grateful to them. Without their help I wouldn't have succeeded in bfing and I went on to feed DS for 17 months.

Other people seem to have had the same experience but not be happy. I don't know why that is, but it just shows that you can only comment on your own experience and your own feelings about it, not then try to extrapolate to how all women might feel about it.

Sorry - just seen the rest of the message. So the later nurse lied to you about the evidence on feeding choices and health, and instead of supporting you with breastfeeding (which I assume you had intended to do) damaged your chances of doing it by giving your baby a bottle. What a champion for choice she was!

So typical that basic poor care is presented as being an example of a HCP bullying a mother into choosing to breastfeed and 'good care' being the HCP who offers formula and fake assurances which she's not qualified to give.

What's your vested interest minifingers? I have none. I've just given my experience of BF-ing this thread. My experience is just as valid as yours and anyone else's. You seem to think that I should have not bothered persevering with BF-ing as I did because it was very difficult for me.

For the record, I don't knowingly have shares in any formula manufacturer. (I do have an ethical pension and while I could specify for the investment fund to avoid investing in arms manufacturers etc I didn't have the option to avoid investing in formula companies.)

Noble - if you had said you wanted to breastfeed they were obliged to try to help you in this way (although it's a shame they weren't more skilled and sensitive in doing it). Some babies take days or even weeks to learn to latch on and in the mean time they need expressed breastmilk - it's better if they can have this while they are learning to latch on rather than formula. It's not good practice to give a difficult to latch baby a bottle of formula within a few hours of the birth if the mum has said she wants to breastfeed.

And you did want to breastfeed didn't you? They weren't forcing you to try - it was your choice.

mini - I guess the 'good care' is the easy option for some staff.

When I was really struggling and doubting myself in the hospital I asked the Midwife for a bottle of formula and she outrightly said, "No." She did this because she knew how desperate I was to breastfeed. At the time I was shocked at her response and probably did feel pressured, but in hindsight I'm glad she said no because it meant I persevered with the BF. If she'd had said yes and presented me with a bottle I know I would have hated myself for it afterwards.

What mini said, to a T! A good midwife would not offer formula to a woman who is trying to breastfeed. BFing isn't an easy thing to do but to me offering formula is implying that the mother has been defeated by her own breasts and can easily decline into a journey towards full-time FF, which the mother did not want in the first place, and is not the best option for the baby.

I agree that there's pressure to FF too btw. I got that too, from relatives, because I was finding BF-ing so hard, while DP was v insistent that I continue to BF because he couldn't understand why I couldn't just do it as it shouldn't hurt (minifingers?!) and he was worried sick that if baby wasn't EBF for at least 6 months then he'd get eczema and asthma and I'd get PND and cancer when I'm older. He also thought that if baby had a bottle at all in the early days, even of expressed milk, that he'd never feed from the breast again. That was all due to info given at the BF classes run by NHS and NCT. They certainly weren't nuanced. He also seemed to view FF as lazy to some extent as he and his siblings had all been BF.

mini I had fully intended to breastfeed. But it wasn't working. What was I supposed to do, keep struggling through exhaustion and tears while my baby screams? Formula was the right thing for me and my baby. I was not lied to, he's now a happy and healthy 3yo.

Breastfeeding doesn't work for everyone. The main thing is that the baby gets fed. Doesn't matter if it's breast or formula, as long as the baby is happy and healthy.

Stuck - I don't agree that health professionals force mothers to breastfeed or guilt trip them into it. There is pressure - yes. But this is internal pressure coming from mothers themselves in response to the advice and information about breastfeeding that HCP are duty bound to disseminate.

You need to acknowledge that HCP are trying to talk to mothers about feeding choices in the context of a society where formula is culturally dominant and where sophisticated formula marketing is prolific and pervasive. It's very hard for them to pitch the message in a way which won't offend and upset a mother who is ambivalent about breastfeeding.

If you are offended by a persons words or actions it doesn't always follow that the words and actions actually ARE offensive. If you come to a situation with a HP with an agenda you are not revealing then you can't expect them to be able to meet your needs.

I'm always a bit when people say they have a FF child who is now 'happy and healthy', and they know a BF child who has asthma and eczema - well of course your child is happy and healthy, it doesn't turn them into zombies. And no where will you ever see something which says BFing prevents things like asthma and eczema - it doesn't, but it can mean if they do get asthma or ezcema it may be less severe if you BF. Anecdotal evidence is moot IMO, and kind of makes me laugh - I just picture scientists and researchers in their labs reading MN on their lunch hour, and going "Oh no! Suzy from Solihull formula feeds her baby and he is the picture of health, whilst Cathy from Canterbury breastfed hers and he has asthma. Bang goes my many years of research, breastfeeding isn't that good afterall!"

Don't - I don't know your breastfeeding history. All I know is that most (not all, but most) mothers who are struggling with breastfeeding in the first week, if they get skilled help, shouldn't need to use formula UNLESS THEY WANT TO.

If had you told the midwife you wanted to breastfeed her duty was to provide evidenced based care to give you the best chance of doing this. Giving help with expressing and cup/syringe feeding while the baby learns to latch on is the medically recommended approach to overcoming early breastfeeding problems.

You may have found the experience shocking or unpleasant but I'm afraid this is what midwives are obliged to recommend IF you have said you want to breastfeed.