there is way too much pressure to EBF?

[ArtFine]

Just that really.

I've had a difficult journey with BF, and when I look back I know it would have been better and much more healthier for my baby (forget me) if I hadn't breastfed. She has CMPA and other allergies (and had awful silent reflux etc), and this would have been picked up very early on had she been bottle fed, and saved her a lot of pain and tears.

Why is there so much pressure to EBF? Why is it always assumed that breast milk is THE best?

What's the harm for example in giving one bottle of formula per day so that babies get used to the bottle?

When I had my eldest (now almost 19) I felt there was enormous pressure to breastfeed, whether I wanted to do it or not. I didn't want to, as I felt more confident and happier with formula feeding (still available on maternity wards then).

I did give breast feeding a try for most of the first week. I felt under pressure to do so. All I achieved was a screaming, hungry baby who lost an enormous amount of body weight. My boobs swelled up so much that she couldn't latch at all, just simply couldn't get her mouth around. Expressing was also unsuccessful.

After a few days I became ill myself with gastroenteritis, lost a lot of fluid and my supply totally dried up. I bottle fed from then onwards and finally began to enjoy her. It was such a relief, and we never looked back.

With my next two children I bottle fed right from the word go.

I have to say that my only regret with regard to breast feeding was that I ever agreed to try it.

That is just my experience.

He OP lit the fuse and just f*** off, yeah?

Should have known better than to get involved.

If you want to BF then do so, if you don't then don't-each to thier own & don't judge-non of your business is my opinion on this subject.

GoshAnne, what do you mean by those with vested interests?

mini reading between the lines, you are a HCP, and are annoyed at being blamed for women's feelings around bf/ff, right?

Well, since, as you've said yourself, bf/ff is an emotive issue, you might like to grind your axe elsewhere. I did not know that most UK babies are ff because part of the pressure exerted on new, and particularly first time mums is the implication in antenatal classes that you'd be the odd one out, the one 'lazy' mother, if you ff.

I'm glad you didn't feel pressure to EBF. I, and many others here, did. Saying that you didn't experience it does not change our experience, so stop trying to dismiss our perfectly valid views, because they aren't yours.

I remember our HV wrote "artificial feeding" (=ff) on my girls' red books. I only noticed it at 17 weeks although she'd been putting it in each time and I sort of read it, was confused for a moment and then realised she didn't mean tube feeding or anything, I thought at first maybe she had confused us with another twin family, because some twins who are born premature come home and need to be tube fed? But not at 17 weeks? And then the penny dropped, and it was hurtful, because she's being all nice and polite to your face and then writing something nasty in the red book that you're going to be carrying around to doctor's appointments for the next 5 years. But it's a busy day with small twins and I forgot about it until 3 in the morning when I was giving them their night bottles that it came back to me. I didn't go back to the HVs after that, only the developmental checks. I'm sure there are plenty of nice HVs but I know it's not the easiest job and I wonder if some of them get into it because they just enjoy telling people off? Reading this thread it seems like you walk in the door, if you're BF they'll ask when you're stopping and if you're FF they'll tell you off for not BF! Can't win.

I felt enormous pressure to breastfeed my first and I hated every fucking minute of the 7 months I managed to do it. It never got easier, she wanted to feed all the time, frequently over fed herself and covered us both in huge amounts of vomit. I wanted someone to tell me to stop but I got more and more depressed as people told me what an amazing mother I was for giving my daughter the best start in life. I really took it to heart and became horribly depressed and I was exhausted and crying every day, genuinely believing I'd be doing my daughter serious damage if I gave her a bottle. Still everyone banged on about how much my daughter loved me for giving her all this breastmilk. I didn't bond with her or love her until after I stopped. Breastfeeding wasn't free! Our food bills went up by 30% because I was so hungry all the time! I didn't lose any weight.

At 7 months DH said that enough was enough and told me it was time to stop. I cried with relief and made her a bottle. When my hormones settled down over the next couple of weeks I suddenly started to get feelings of love towards my daughter. I suddenly understood what the mother-child bond felt like. Breast might have been best for her but it took a terrible toll on my mental health and the early relationship I had with her. She's 21 months now and I still feel awful that I didn't love her like a mother is meant to do.

I've got an 11 week old baby boy and he had some boob for the first couple of weeks but has been 100% on formula since then. Whilst I was still breastfeeding him I could feel the gloom descending - more than mere baby blues - so I made the decision to stop before I became depressed again. I had to look at the bigger picture this time. My children and DH need me to be happy. I need me to be happy.

I BF and oddly, the only person who commented on this was some person on the end of telephone in charge of administering the free milk I was entitled to. They'd changed the milk to 'baby' milk once DD was born, and I wanted it changed back and had to argue with the person on the phone that I was feeding my child, and that the milk tokens were still supposed to be for me.

That upset me. It was however, the only time I think I can remember it being mentioned by anyone.

I think most people I met imagined I was FF, I just didn't bother to tell them any different. Maybe I was lucky and just didn't talk to nosey people.

The problem does not lie with the level of promotion, but with the level of support within the NHS.

The support is needed immediately and it simply wasn't there when I had DS. I struggled with a baby that wouldn't latch, until he was dehydrated and developed jaundice. The hospital breastfeeding "expert" sent me here advice on a post-it note, without ever clapping eyes on DS and myself. I spent five days in hospital, being screamed at by a midwife who told me "You need to feed your baby!".

Note: DS is almost three and this whole experience still upsets me deeply. I never managed to BF.

I think promotion of BF becomes "pressure", when you realise it's hard and that you have no support.

I agree stately - the level of BF support I received in the hospital was pretty poor. The staff were always on hand, I can't fault them for that, but their answer to my attachment problems were to grab my breast in one hand, DS's head in the other and force them together. Not once did they try and teach me how to do it myself. DS lost 9% of his body weight in 24 hours, had early onset jaundice and became very lethargic - as a result he had to be seen by the Neonatologist twice, I was beside myself with worry. The doctors just told me to give formula and on two occasions of weakness I did.

24 hours later I made the decision to just go home - I got far more support and encouragement from my DH and I wanted to be with him. I know that if I'd spent another night in hospital they would break me and I'd end up with a formula fed baby.

Things improved when I was home but I still struggled for about 3-4 days and spent a lot of my time in tears and was in quite a bad place. Thankfully I received better support from the Community Midwife and the HV and things are now going smoothly.

There needs to be far better support to encourage mothers to continue breast feeding and a more realistic image of the BF experience needs to be put across so women know what to expect.

vested interests those pesky people with their interest in infant health. Outrageous.

Artificial feeding was, until very very recently, the term used in most formal medical recording of ff. now it's just termed "not at all breastfeeding" through to "fully breastfeeding"
It's not a judgement call, it's just the way it's documented by the mws and HVs in central records. The red books are often printed with these terms. don't take it personally. It's just a r ord of whether baby is bf or not.

Obviously there is "too much pressure" because that's what ppl are feeling.
There's also too much pressure to bottle feed, in lots of ppl's experience.
For best health outcomes there are certainly too few babies bing breastfeed beyond a few weeks.
What there lacks is the right support IMHO.

And I agree with ppl's about needin immediate support.
My personal experience was awful initially. The staff were too busy/ poorly informed. My HV was great but that was two weeks in so he'd already had formula (unneccessarily and not what I wanted). Thankfully I then fed him for as long as we wanted but it's a shame the start was so awful.

I agree that aftercare is paramount. I was sent home after haemorraging in labour, with little milk beause of it. The midwife informed me I would be behind with milk.

Roll on a few days and my dd is extremely hungry and I am told by hv to put her into formula asap.

The day before a hv had said he was feeding fine. (She obviously wasn't)

I was traumatised by my daughter getting so hungry due to lack of my milk and me persisting with trying to bf as I didn't know. It was just drummed into me to bf. So I persisted to the point it had a detrimental affect on my dd (she was v hungry)

I think if hvs had actually listened to the peobs I was having / had communicated with the midwives about my haemorraging they would have maybe suggested ff sooner, instead they just pushed the bf without listening to my concerns. It was same with the midwives in the hospital too.

It wasn't printed Amanda, it was written. She was the only one that used the term and got very defensive when I called her on it. The only other time I spoke to her for any length of time was when she weighed my children at 6 weeks, got their weights mixed up and told me off for letting the bigger one's weight drop. Believe it or not some of them really are not good eggs, whatever you want to believe.

Thanks for the flowers herethere :)

I agree that aftercare and support is lacking esp in hospital. Had my baby been weighed at 72 hrs as should have happened then the weightb loss evident of feeding problems would have been picked up and I could have been helped by being told to pump or have latch checked etc. Instead he wasn't weighed for another three days by which time he'd lost over 11% of birth weight.

minifingers - the women who've found BF extremely difficult have a right to be heard, as much as those who found it easy! The NHS support needs to meet the needs of those who need it and the guidance and recommendations should reflect the reality of breastfeeding.

There's a lot of pressure to BF in my experience. As I said, the hospital I have birth in is UNICEF baby friendly so formula isn't easily offered. All but one of the other mums in my NCT group breastfed with no problems until at least 9 months. The one that didn't wanted to but couldn't and was left feeling a failure and avoiding our get togethers as she didn't like being the only one not BF. I found the get togethers difficult too because they just highlighted how difficult I was finding something that was so easy for others.

An ultimate example of the bees pressure is the leaflet I was given at ante natal appointments and post natally in hospital which was a ' letter from my baby ' telling me that they wanted and needed me to EBF them because it was best for them in so many ways. If that isn't pressure then I don't know what is.

The language around parenting is very interesting and I think leads to people assuming offence where none is actually intended. Artificial feeding is a good example of this. It has been an accepted term for many, many years and isn't a judgement. Probably feels like it though. There are lots of examples. Failure to thrive, geriatric mother, poor maternal effort etc. I do think all HCPs need to be mindful of the language of they use especially when a mother notes her feelings. I could probably trawl through my labour notes and the red books and make a list of accepted terms which could be misconstrued but in reality, they're just the terms we've used for many years. Maybe that should be addressed.

stuck - I can't believe that about the leaflet, that's awful!!

Rax - I agree. I don't see what is so nasty about writing 'Artificially feeding' - it's not a judgement, just a fact. Just as factual as if the HV wrote 'breast fed' on another baby's Red Book.

Because its cheaper to pressurise women into breastfeeding than it is to provide the support that would actually help increase breastfeeding rates.

Yes squishy, all down to money...

"And then the penny dropped, and it was hurtful, because she's being all nice and polite to your face and then writing something nasty in the red book that you're going to be carrying around to doctor's appointments for the next 5 years."

But Formula feeding is Artificial. Completely artificial.

Why is is an issue to write the word artificial?

Formula feeding is undeniably artificial feeding, but I can see how that would potentially cause upset to a vulnerable, emotional new mother - I think I would have felt disapproved-of if that had happened to me

No one ever pressurised me to ebf, an awful lot of people pressurised me to ff, presumably because it was cheaper and easier than providing me with bf support. As someone else said, you can't win.

Had no pressure to bf. And when you keep going past the first few weeks, no comments on this being a good thing. And if you're still going beyond a year, slightly incredulous looks from doctors if you ask if a medicine is suitable for use when bf "but is he on a normal diet" etc.

Also meant to say, everyone in my maternity ward was either ff or mixed feeding, so if there was pressure they managed to resist it ok.

I have recently had DC3 and the pressure to breastfeed has been utterly ridiculous. When I had DC1 and 2 8 and 6 years ago, I had a horrible time trying to BF, one moment in particular that will always stay with me is having a midwife on one side and a breast feeding support work on the other, each pulling by boobs every which way whhilst sitting in my hospital bed on the post natal ward, DD screaming uncontrollably and me feeling like a useless shit. I gave up and FF.

so, this time around I chose to FF from the beginning, realising my children have grown up perfectly normally, haven't grown an extra head or anything nor are glowing translucency from evil formula! I have had no end of judgements and comments! On the post natal ward I asked for a bottle of formula, and I was told I would have to wait until shift change, that was an hour away! Next I was told by a different midwife that I was making a rod for my own back by warming the milk and she knows best as she's been a midwife for 31 years.

My DH's GM at a small family gathering (about 10 or so people) when DC3 was a week old, shouts loudly across the room when I produce his bottle "oh, you aren't feeding him yourself then, well that is very silly and selfish of you." errr thanks!

and finally, the dermatologist, yes a dermatolgist! Who was removing a mole for me when DC3 was 8 weeks, "are you not breastfeeding baby then if you've been able to leave him with husband for a couple of hours", seriously what has it got to do with anyone how I feed my child! The reaction and stigma attached I may as well have a bottle of pinot grigio shoved in his mouth.

Happy mum, happy baby, thats all anyone needs to be concerned with!