AIBU to suggest The Grand National should be banned..it's abuse

[AnnieMaybe]

Watching the channel 4 programme 'how to get a Grand National Winner'

The whole thing is nothing but animal abuse for monetary gain

It should be stopped/banned

You know there's no need to worry about the animals not bred. An animal that never existed isn't going to be distressed at having never existed.

And horses are herd animals. They run because in the herd/harras, safety lies. Got nothing to do with enjoyment of a race. A horse frisking in a paddock looks very different to a horse tearing along riderless in a race.

I have ridden for thirty eight years but am not involved in racing.

parkin

Don't be so stupid! The horses continue running after unseating a rider because they are panicking and all the other horses are still running. Horses are herd animals.

The horses running loose are not panicked. A panicked horse runs wildly, zig-zagging with his eyes wide and ears pinned back. Those running loose in a race are running "with the herd" but their body language shows absolutely no signs of panic or fear.

Looking at the winning horse, it looked gorgeous and happy. I am never going to agree it should be banned and hate being preached at and called "stupid" because I don't agree with you. Very rude. Yes they are obviously herd animals but are not devoid of thought.

They aren't necessarily panicking but they are not making a choice born out of real choice. It is instinct. And justifying it because it is instinctive allows us to rationalise it.

Those who make their living from racing or use it as a social occasion are never going to have an objective view. They have too much invested in it.

Applies to all of us in one way or another.

I was conflicted about the GN and racing in general before I clicked on this thread. Having read it I've come to the conclusion that it is for the most part no bad thing. I am hoping that the lack of serious injuries over this year and last are a good sign for the new safety measures.

I did have concerns over race horses being backed and raced so young, but thanks to the information on here from some posters it does sound like there are good reasons for that, so thanks to them.

I have always known that horses enjoy racing. The horse that refused to start this year demonstrated quite neatly exactly how impossible it is to make a horse race if it doesn't want to.

Mignonette I've probably ridden for about 38 years too. And I've never, ever seen a horse frisking in a paddock. Nor have I ever heard a single horsy person say that they did either!

They aren't necessarily panicking but they are not making a choice born out of real choice

Most horse's free choice would be to stuff themselves with as much grass as they can until they get laminitis, that's why we keep them in small fields.

Are you sure you've been a rider for 38 years?

Getting back to the point. I was actually more concerned with Cheltenham this year, and with the high number of horse deaths there each year. As well as deaths at the Grand National. I think there is something that needs to be addressed, as well as softening fences and making fields smaller (the fields are often not huge at Cheltenham). Are jockeys riding as well as they could? Is jump schooling adequate? I know that if I gallop at speed at a big jump, it would be dangerous. I appreciate steeplechasers jump in an entirely different way to showjumpers, but there must be some improvements to be made.

I also think we should consider banning people with no common sense from influencing anything to do with animals, on animal welfare grounds!

I have ridden for 38 years but I have never owned a horse and I don't socialise with other riders.

I wouldn't call myself a horsey person . I just ride them- I don't live and breathe them.

We all wear clothing and eat food but I wouldn't necessarily expect you to understand couture terminology or classical French techniques.

Frisk - skip or leap playfully; frolic.

You've never seen a horse do this? Weird.

OK then. Please don't perish the thought of us who have to muck out the horses we ride too much! Equally I could understand some couture terminology reasonably well. If you don't think the two can mix, ask Jodie Kidd.

I've seen a horse be fresh, plenty of times.

How did I get to ride? By helping out my oldest friend whose parents (and then her after they died) owned their own livery.

In exchange for mucking out and cleaning tack (and getting up at 4 a.m when the flood meadows flooded to move the horses) I got to ride.

I am sure you understand some couture terminology and also know that Edie Campbell is a champion flat and jump equestrienne. Fashion has a long history of taking its models from a class of people who ride, hunt and shoot. This diminshed for a time with the more egalitarian 60's and the rise of models such as Shrimpton and Twiggy and the people who photographed them but it was a temporary thing and soon the predominate fashion status quo was re-established. We now have models like Jean Campbell (The Cawdors), the aforementioned Edie, Stella Tennant (the Guinnesses/Devonshires) yada yada.. You see upper class models are a little bit of a cultural interest of mine . Jean Campbell started modelling in Vogue aged three.

But I am a little that you think that all people who have ridden are locked hide bound into narrow linguistic parameters. I realise that we use language to try to assess who is part of a particular group or power structure but let life throw you a curve ball every now and again.

It's interesting that people who are concerned about thoroughbreds don't seem to care about the many unwanted horses and ponies which are killed/culled or die via neglect each year. Or those in developing countries which are litterally worked until they drop (I know their owners have much harder lives than I can imagine).

In the past, I've volunteered for an organisation that tries to give unwanted dartmoor ponies/ponies off the moor a future. These ponies are esentially valueless (unlike thoroughbreds) but more are born every year due to the way the herds are managed. Many animals are culled each year for no purpose, and some sadly die through neglect. Many will suffer during the winter, when no additional food is provided for them (as they have no value) or suffer due to lack of vet treatment.

I really hope some of the people on this thread who are concerned about horse welfare would be willing to donate some money or time to a local horse welfare organisation. Sadly many rehoming centres are overflowing at this time- there is a leisure horse breeding crisis in the uk and many people also had to give up there horses at short notice during the recession. More and more horses are also being dumped on common land.

Alternatively, please consider donating to one of the many wonderful charities which help working equids (and their owners) around the world. Many of these owners are very poor, so charities are the only way of ensuring these horse recieve, for example, veterinary treatment which helps prevent suffering.

I don't think the grand national is perfect- although I do think some of the recent changes (e.g. moving the start, changing the fence structure) seem to have made a positive difference, although after only two races in reasonable conditions it is really too soon to tell.

If I had the power to, I would reduce the number of horses racing to 20- which I think would make a massive difference to the safety of the race, especially at the start. I would also not allow the race to go ahead in really awful weather conditions or very heavy ground, which is when there tends to be the most fallers, fatalities and jockey injuries. However, I do accept that these proposals can be difficult to carry out in real life. That is the thing about being involved in animal welfare- you have to live in the real world and interact with what is possible (For example I think many animals should not be kept in zoos but accept this is needed for conservation reasons).

I also think there is probably some cruelty in racing. That is because I cannot think of any sphere involving animals where some cruelty is not involved. However, at least most in the racing industry are knowledgable about the animals they are looking after, and can ensure they recieve the very best of care. This is not imo true of a very many other animal settings.

Yes it is the unwillingness of many horse and pony lovers to care for their animals until they die a natural death.

Slowloris, I agree with much of your post but there is one point where you're mistaken: heavy ground Nationals tend to be the safest. You get fewer finishers because more jockeys pull their horses up, because running in heavy ground is more tiring, but because the pace tends to be much slower on heavy ground the falls that do happen tend to be less serious. Fast ground is much more dangerous - I'd advocate the course always being watered to ensure at least soft ground.