AIBU to suggest The Grand National should be banned..it's abuse

[AnnieMaybe]

Watching the channel 4 programme 'how to get a Grand National Winner'

The whole thing is nothing but animal abuse for monetary gain

It should be stopped/banned

[MoreBeta]

SelectAUserName - very good post.

The Grand National has been considerably safer. Higher entrance standards for horses and jockeys have led to a smaller field. Modifications to fences makes the jumps safer. All good. The racing industry has responded.

I live overlooking a National Hunt race course. No horses die ever on that course. I watch the men constructing the fences every year from scratch. I know the course vet. There is a lot of safety built in for legal, health and safety and animal welfare reasons.

No horse owner, race course operator, jockey, gambler or anyone going to visit races for a 'day out' wants to see a fall and die.

[mathanxiety]

Nothing a bulldozer couldn't handle though? If we can build motorways and canals we can bulldoze a few jumps.

Removing or significantly modifying (not moving) the worst offenders might reduce casualties.

When my grandad raced his horses against the horses of other farmers in the Barony and further afield everyone knew what was at stake in the racing season was possibly the difference between a good year and a bad one, a child going away to school with a chance to go to university or staying at the tech, with the risk the same for all. Breeding, showcasing and selling a promising horse was what it was all about. There wasn't insurance, so if the course didn't strike the right balance between challenge that would show off a horse's form and danger to the horses, families might suffer. The trick was to keep the course safe because it just wasn't right that some farmer would have to write off a loss that might be significant.

The horses in the GN are insured, and their owners, trainers, etc., are not risking their shirts the way my grandad and his fellow enthusiasts did. I think this makes a difference.

[AscoyneDAscoyne]

Op, Yanbu. I used to enjoy watching the GN then a couple of years ago I put a bet on and some of the horses died. I felt deeply ashamed of myself and vowed never to bet on a living creature again.
Most of the horses involved are a commodity and only treated well whilst they make money. There's serious money to be made which often leads to greed and inevitably animals will suffer.
For those using "I bet the op isn't a vegan" justification, surely you can see the difference between cattle reared for food to animals being killed and maimed for our entertainment?

[Joysmum]

I have a horse, but for leisure. She loves going out and about, loves jumping. I know all of this because I know how she changes when I've been unable to take her out.

Having said that, I believe the ratio of fatalities/injuries tells me that even with the safety improvements, the risk is far too high and needs a lot more doing to make the risks acceptable. I can't/won't watch it, and I certainly won't bet on it.

[SelectAUserName]

Actually Ascoyne, although I didn't use that argument myself, I think there is some merit in it.

My judgement is based on: how does the animal live, and how does it die? That's all that matters. Does it have a good life, with the best standards of care, with veterinary attention when it needs it, with the company of others of its species? When death comes - as it inevitably will to any animal born - is it a quick and relatively humane death, as free as possible from pain and fear and drawn-out suffering?

That is all that matters to an animal. Until the very final few minutes of their life they have no concept of impending death. They aren't aware whether they're being bet on, of being entertainment or food. What matters is the standard of care during life and the efficiency of their despatch.

And so, for me - and I appreciate this is a personal judgement call, and others feel differently - racing is, in the main, a better life for horses than being raised for food is for cattle and pigs in particular, and sheep to a certain extent. There are some excellent farmers who love and respect their livestock and who give them that excellent standard of care. Unfortunately there are many more who don't, and as we import such a huge quantity of meat from countries where welfare standards are usually even lower than the poorer farmers in the UK, I think it is rather hypocritical to shed a tear over a fallen Grand National runner, whose life was one of equine luxury and whose death was quick, while not giving a thought to the horrendous actual cruelty which was necessary to put a slice of bacon, a piece of veal, a pint of milk on the table.

No-one needs to eat meat. It is a choice, just as much as putting a bet on.

[babybat]

FrankelandFilly - Our Vic died in retirement a couple of years ago.
bloodstock.racingpost.com/news/bloodstock/sadlers-wells-top-racehorse-and-jumps-sire-old-vic-dies/822302/

[Merlotmonster]

here we go again...............

[LividofLondon]

Apart from the use of animals as entertainment and the injury/death in racing aspects, I'm really concerned about what happens to all the horses bred that don't make the grade. I'd like to know, in a typical year, how many are bred, and what happens to all those that are no longer financially viable or at the end of their racing career. If they are generally not considered suitable for novice riders then how many actually find nice forever retirement homes? I get the impression rehoming ex-race horses is a niche market. I suspect most end up in the food chain, and whilst I'm not anti eating horses per se, I wonder (as we don't eat them in the UK) that they end up on the continent. Out of those how many were transported live (something I think is abhorrent)?

I just wish those people who enjoy a day at the races (and I include dog racing in this as it's shocking what goes on behind the scenes) would look beyond their entertainment and look at the bigger picture.

[babybat]

Crap, wrong horse. Ignore me!

[jellybeans]

YANBU it's barbaric

[FrankelandFilly]

@ babybat, that was Our Vic's dad!

Livid about 6,000 Thoroughbred foals are bred in the UK each year, though they are not all destined for the UK racing industry (many are owned by Irish, French, American, etc owners and just happen to be born in this country). About 4,000 two year olds go into training each year and these are made up of horses born in the UK as well as those purchased/bred abroad and imported. National Hunt horses don't enter training till they are at least 3, more usually 4 or 5 so I don't know the statistics for those.

I'd say, at a guess, about 70% of horses bred make it into training. Some are never destined for the racing industry, they are bred as pleasure horses or eventers, etc, some will sadly die or be put down in their early years for one reason or another and others do seem to "disappear". It is something that the industry is working on to resolve - a high level of "wastage" is in no one's interest.

[Allergictoironing]

Don't forget that a large number of the mares do go on to be bred from, and not always more racehorses but often crossed with a heavier breed for eventing, dressage etc.

[SelectAUserName]

Livid they are very valid points. That is where racing falls down, IMO, although it is improving. That is the area where I am active - I fundraise for the rehoming charities, I'm a homechecker of potential homes for one of them, I have been involved in campaigns against live export, I lobby Parliament/DEFRA for tighter controls on passports so that low-grade auctions can't issue passports at point of sale. On the plus side, more and more trainers are seeing the benefits of rehoming their horses more responsibly themselves - Jim Boyle in Epsom, Godolphin (Sheikh Mohammed's racing operation), Lucinda Russell are good examples of this.

Obviously a substantial proportion of horses which leave Flat racing, and the majority of National Hunt mares, go on to stud to become the sires and dams of the future. A further sector of Flat race geldings will go on to race over jumps. There is currently a thriving overseas market for 'middle-ranking' Flat horses to race in Australia, Hong Kong and the Middle East. There are currently several thousand registered in the leisure pursuits of dressage, eventing, hacking etc. But undoubtedly there are still many who do end up in the food chain, either human or pet food (the latter if they have received certain medication during their life that excludes them from human consumption). I don't disagree with eating horse per se and again, I think if they have had a well-cared for life and receive as humane and respectful a death as possible, that is not the worst fate for any animal - they have probably had a better life than so many of the coloured cobs tethered on wasteland or left in semi-feral herds to breed indiscriminately year on year who end up in the same place - but the concern is that they are not getting that quick and respectful death, especially if they are being shipped live.

Breeders have cut back - there is now concern that there won't be sufficient foals born to support the number of racing fixtures as the figure currently stands - and some complicated qualitative analysis carried out by Weatherbys, the company with whom all racehorses are registered, has indicated that it is the low-grade sector which has seen the biggest reduction in breeding, so again that is an encouraging sign of responsibility. But there is undoubtedly still work to be done.

[Molecule]

This thread happens every year, but with regard to the racing industry over-producing foals etc, far more poor quality riding horses are bred and end up going from pillar to post to slaughter house - just go to your local horse sales to see this. Many of those will have led increasingly grotty lives, so perhaps all horse riding should be banned.

At least with the bloodstock industry everyone is trying to breed the best, with many other horses/ponies there is an attitude of breed from any mare.

[mathanxiety]

Until the very final few minutes of their life they have no concept of impending death. They aren't aware whether they're being bet on, of being entertainment or food. What matters is the standard of care during life and the efficiency of their despatch.

Same goes for babies and people who are severely intellectually impaired though. Can we decide that granny, who doesn't remember the name of a single one of her family or even her own, has no bed sores, all her own teeth still, has had a good innings and her time is up as of next Tuesday? Can we decide that a newborn of the wrong sex can be quietly and without cruelty, dispatched?

And while I agree with you that we can't assume animals have the overall knowledge or ability to conceptualise or anticipate that we do, we are endowed with other faculties that enable us to judge whether what we do is, for instance, exploitative or accomplished with wanton disregard for the outcome for the animal.

[FrankelandFilly]

Select a few years ago I spent a summer volunteering at the weekend at Darley's retraining centre just outside Newmarket. I very nearly took home a Dubai Millennium gelding, but he was a bit much for me

[LividofLondon]

Thanks FrankelandFilly. What happens to the 30% that don't make it into training? That's a lot of horses bred for a very specific purpose that need homes.

It concerns me that so many horses in general need homes and are passed around from pillar to post as their usefulness gradually fades. But then I've never quite got my head around how many seemingly lovely horse owners who don't consider their animals as a commitment "for life". It all seems so disposable.

"...far more poor quality riding horses are bred and end up going from pillar to post to slaughter house..."

I don't doubt that Molecule, and what's terrible is that it was a problem decades ago yet it seems nothing's really changed. My neighbour has 3 nice enough horses that just lounge around in a field all day doing sod all and was trying to get one pregnant. My first thought was surely there are enough horses in the country already without her adding to the numbers, especially as she'd already rehomed a 4th. I think the breeding of any animal should be heavily regulated because there are far too many needing homes as it is.

[HowContraryMary]

On the assumption we universally banned horse racing, what do you think would happen to the horses? They would just be sent to France and turned into glue.

It would also cause mass unemployment in certain rural areas, closure of stables, unemployment of stable girls, trainee jockeys and so forth

[FrankelandFilly]

Livid not every Thoroughbred foal bred is being bred for the racing market. The way breed registration works is that every foal of a specific breed is registered with their governing society, in this case Weatherbys Stud Book. It doesn't matter that they are being bred for another purpose, they all get lumped together because they are the same breed.

It's difficult to know what the ultimate aim for each foal is, Weatherbys do ask on the foal registration forms whether the foal is aimed at Flat, Jump, Dual Purpose, or "Other", but the information is not compulsory. Every Thoroughbred born in the UK has to be microchipped at about 6 weeks of age in order for their registration to be processed, but it's not the same in other countries so keeping track of their whereabouts can be difficult.

[FrankelandFilly]

This economic impact study on racing in the UK is worth reading.

[maleview70]

It's not as abusive as slaughtering healthy animals just to eat them.....

[Abra1d]

If you are worried about equine welfare there are much more pressing concerns. Horses hobbled in fields with no water and grazing. Horses on traveller camps bred for trotting races and, round here, trained on dangerous, hilly lanes.

[ohmymimi]

It's vile, all jump races are. I'm not keen on flat or dog racing either. Apologists always come up with loads of self-serving guff, but it's all about money. No-one who truly cared for animal welfare would have anything to do with it.

[Nokidsnoproblem]

Humans are one of the few animals that kill for fun.

With our level of intelligence and understanding you would think that, as a species, we wouldn't need to torture other animals for fun.

There are plenty of ways to have a 'nice day out' without harming other animals.

I harshly judge anyone who takes their children to these kind of events.

[FrankelandFilly]

Racehorses are not "tortured" or "killed for fun". What a ridiculous statement