No idea what to do or say for the best re move overseas....

[Tory79]

This is probably more a wwyd but it looks ever so quiet in there!

The facts:

I am 12 weeks pregnant, and have ds who's 2.5. I'm a SAHM.

Dh works very hard in a good job and earns good money. However, he works long hours, often has a massive commute (we live in the midlands, close to his family, but he spends a lot of time in London) he is usually away at least 2 nights a week. He has hated his job for a while now, his boss (who owns the company) is, shall we say, somewhat eccentric, very demanding of dh, and frequently ridiculously unreasonable. Dh (and a number of his colleagues) have very serious concerns that the company may go under soon.

Dh has been approached re a new job. He hasn't had an offer yet, but he has been for an interview and is fairly sure that they would like to make him an offer. New job is just what dh would like to do, massive and very secure company, regular hours with v little travel, excellent pay. Oh..... And based in Dubai.

He has been looking for other jobs in London/where we live, but has not found anything comparable to either the potential job or his current role.

Dh wants to go to Dubai. However, he's basically said its up to me, as I'm the one who'd have to make a new life over there.

I don't want to go. I'm terrified of losing family support, my friends, of having a baby abroad, of being so far from everyone, of trying to sort out a life for ds over there. this is not helped by the fact that I've been so sick and so tired for the last 6 weeks or so now and feeling like utter shit form the pregnancy. Also terrified of having 2 and being all alone abroad - I find it hard enough with 1 sometimes!!

In addition, it would break my mums heart, my brother already lives overseas. She and my dad are divorced and she is on her own.

I also have dsd8, and I don't think dh has properly thought through how that would work either.

I know it may all be irrelevant, there has been no offer as yet, but dh is supposed to be meeting someone v senior in the company next week, and is talking about cancelling it as I'm obviously not keen.

I don't know what to do! I am considering suggesting that I stay here and see how that works to begin with.... I don't think dh would be very happy with that though.....

It's the practicalities of the follow the salary/career options and her dh unhappy
She doesnt work and has nothing to give up,other than a preference to be near mum
He has to balance career development against stay in job he dislike

I would be very concerned about you not joining him out there (if he went).

I also understand why you would want to have your baby in the UK but I would not leave it too long to join him out there either. If you saw out your pregnancy here then that would be X weeks or months??? Then 3 months on top??? How often will your DH get to be with you and realistically how much time would he get with his baby? His life in 3 months will have moved on massively and tbh its just not a great recipe for happiness and success in the happiest and most stable of relationships.

If you did decide as a couple to take this opportunity then it will be a huge change in both your lives. I think as a couple it would be important to experience the new life together as soon as you could.

I really sense your reluctance in this and do understand because it is a huge move and very scary one (esp if you have never moved around before). However, your children are the prime age for opportunities to get out and meet other people. You could have a better social scene out there than here tbh. Alot of expats get together and help each other out with kids etc. The fact you are "all away from extended family support" kind of pulls you all together.

You could see it as a temporary move. Decide together you will give it 2 years or whatever and see how it goes. TBH - I have moved around alot and it can take the first 6 months just to find your feet. After 18 months I feel well established.

I would say though - dont even bother going if you really do not think you can give it your all. If you go half heartedly (anywhere) you wont enjoy it. You wont put the effort in to "get out there" and make a life and will just be glum, lonely and miserable. You really need to go with the right mindset to really try and make a go of it.

Letting him go abroad alone,you staying here is akin to ending your marriage imo

Op, my DSDs are 12 and 16. They will come over for long holidays and we will skype too.
I know what you mean about being pregnant. I should be 15 weeks by now. Had a MMC at 12 weeks. My plan was that Dh would go in August, I would have the baby in September and then Dh would come back for Christmas and we would then all fly over in the new year.
It's a really hard decision however I have decided that I need to do this for 2 years and we will be able to have a more financially stable future. If it was a permenant move I might not be so willing !

I agree with Scottishmummy when she says him going alone would be the end of the marriage. My Dh would be 16 hours away. Seeing each other maybe twice a year is not a marriage or family life (for me).

Your DSD is a very important consideration and one which your DH seems ridiculously blasé about.

If her mother didn't like her being away for more than 2 weeks she's unlikely to allow her to fly to Dubai alone. Plus, is it likely the mother would demand a share in your DH's increased salary in the form of increased maintenance?

I do think it sounds like your DH has been blinded by the tax free salary and just thinks the rest will all work out.

Are you comfortable that at the end of the 5 years that there would be opportunities for him that would make it worthwhile? Yes he'd have this on his CV but I'm guessing he wouldn't have the qualifications you mentioned and if there aren't any suitable jobs in the UK anyway, it might all be in vain.

You are going to have to reach a decision that ultimately won't be the first choice for one of you but make sure you reach it based on facts- not some pipe dream of saving loads of cash from a job in a tax free country and walking into a dream job when he returns.

Post under "living overseas", lots of Dubai people to give you the low down

I'd strongly urge you to go there for a long weekend and check it out.

I love it there but on a recent trip a basic bottle of wine in a restaurant was £50 and I noticed a 9pk of Andrex loo rolls in a supermarket was nearly a tenner (both essentials in my world!)

You can't compare a £100k tax free salary with a UK cost of living.

I've moved abroad. It was brilliant and I would do it over again and again. But when we had kids I came back to the UK. We may move again in a few years, but it can be hard at first to find your feet and doing that with a aby and toddler will most probaby make it even harder.

There are two things I would caution regarding - 1) It will not in anyway paper over any cracks in your relationhip, it will strain them and make them much worse. You haven't mentioned any realtionship problems, so this may not apply. But if there are strains, even if you are absolutely certain they are caused by the bad current work situation, I would be very hesitent to go.
2) Work out what your legal situation would be if you decided you wanted to ome home and DH didn't.

In a similar vein, you need to establish how easy it is to bring back any tax free saved income into the UK (I dismissed the idea of living there before getting that far so don't know how it works).

I'd also strongly reflect on the circumstances surrounding your DH becoming estranged from his first daughter. If it wasn't his choice then fair enough, but if he's walked away from one family set up, this will put an immense amount of pressure on you both and it's not inconceivable that history will repeat itself.

I moved to the Middle East last year with my dh and 4 month old, best decision we've ever made. It is hard being away from family but there are so many expats that everyone is in the same boat. I'm not sure about Dubai but there's Doha mums and Abu Dhabi mums sites, lots of play groups, coffee mornings etc.
don't stay in the uk without him, we moved to spend more time together due to long working hours in the uk. It's been lovely.
I would say that is a good salary (although I'm not in Dubai) and we have already paid off credit cards we'd had for years.
Doha and Abu Dhabi do seems more family orientated simply because they are smaller and I'm assuming cheaper for accommodation so they may options for you. We have everything you have mentioned in the package and medical care is "regardless of previous history".
I don't have a dsd though so that is a difficult one, that said Dubai is a brilliant place and as she gets older she will probably want to spend longer there.
As someone else said, most mums and kids go home as soon as summer holidays start, so hopefully your husband will get time off then too.
We are planning on paying off £200,000 mortgage in the uk in 5 years- now we are here it's very realistic and we are already saying goodbye to the people going home at the other end.

I followed my husband there as a 'trailing spouse' while I was on a sabbatical from my own career in 2008. I would not consider going in your position. I think you will be able to live comfortably on the salary and allowances you mention, but not save anywhere near what your husband thinks, so if saving considerable sums is your primary motivation for going, I wouldn't.

Other well-meaning posters are talking brightly about 'moving abroad', but 'abroad' isn't a generic destination, and Dubai is a law unto itself. The corruption, routine human rights abuses, and the fundamental fact that you are living in a dictatorship, are not nothing. You may feel this is very little to do with you, but the flipside of expat tax free salaries is comparative vulnerability.

Your residency permit will depend upon your husband's sponsorship by his employer, which means his employer, in a sense, owns him. When we lived there (my husband had a high level job), it was the norm for the employer to hold the employee's passport, and it is extremely difficult to move jobs within Dubai, should something go wrong - bans on a former employee working in the same field for up to a year are common, and as your residency is linked to you being employed, you can be deported if you lose your job. I came across numerous situations where an original work contract wasn't honoured. Employment law favours the employer. You may well be fine, but if things go wrong -you are raped, or have a car crash or any form of dispute with an Emirati, are perceived to fall foul of decency or drug laws - you are very vulnerable.

I could say a lot more but need to go and bath my baby. PM me if you like.

This thread seems to have glossed over the dsd quite a bit. I was shocked by your OP which laid out the reasons for and against (I was thinking yes, go for it) and then, almost as an afterthought, mentions that your dh has a daughter he would be leaving behind.

I guess if he rarely sees her now this move probably wouldn't matter so much. But if you have her EOW, or he sees her a few times a week, it doesn't seem like a brilliant idea to me. Yes she can fly out - but when? With who? At whose expense? She is at school, and while it probably wouldn't kill her to miss a week now (providing her mum is ok with it and you don't mind the fine) it will get much harder to take her out. That leaves you with three holidays, possibly half terms. There's no way her mum will be happy for you to have her for all of the holidays (I would guess). Doesn't leave much time for a child who is used to seeing her dad. Would she fly unaccompanied? If not you will have to buy two plane tickets.

Most of all, I can't believe your husband is happy to go and live a 7 hour flight away from his daughter, and that a lot of posters seem to think that that's ok, she'll just fly out lots. This is your biggest problem, and you (or rather your husband!) need to address it before even thinking about anything else.

I think the 8 year old DSD should be a priority and surely makes this move a nonstarter. Not only will she miss out on seeing her dad but also her siblings. As a parent I struggle to understand how he could be happy to do this.

There's no way her mum will be happy for you to have her for all of the holidays (I would guess).

My mum felt much the same, but the courts didn't see it that way, and that was back in the 70s when dads really didn't have many rights at all.

My dad had us for all of the holidays except every other Christmas.

It had its downsides, but the upsides were that I got some great long holidays with my dad and his side of the family (including my half-siblings) in interesting parts of the world.

Can you go for a visit? I lived in Dubai for one year (I am a teacher) and I really didn't like it. Lots of people really do love it - it is an easy "stepping stone" to living abroad in some ways if you haven't done it before. For me, I missed green outside spaces and activities (although you'd be likely to have a pool), didn't enjoy the city as a place and found it hard to handle the treatment of migrant workers/women. I like to walk around and Dubai really isn't set up for this.

I also thought the standard of the schools was pretty poor compared to a UK school (especially a UK private school). For example, my school was an expensive private school (accredited by all the sorts of organisations you would expect) but we didn't have interactive whiteboards, we had a very poor selection of textbooks, rationing of board markers (!!!) and other stationery. The IT and sports facilities were pretty hopeless and in general I felt that the students weren't supported/encouraged as I would have expected.

But, lots of people do absolutely love it - it is easy to make friends, there is lots of partying to be done if that is what you like, you can travel easily to interesting places, you'll have access to a pool and help at home if you want that. There will be plenty of "trailing spouses" and new people all the time looking to make friends. You'll get an idea if you go there for a visit of whether you might like it (and how far the salary will stretch!).

Also make sure you consider the financial implications of things not working out. If your husband loses his job 6 months into your 12 month lease, you may find that you have to leave but are still liable for the rental. I would make sure you are prepared for what could happen if things turn tricky.

I've been the 'trailing spouse' (hate that phrase!) for the past 7 years or so, and have moved four times.

The salary you're talking about is actually not huge in expat terms. Also, if it's a large company then I'm very surprised housing and bills are not included. I think you should push for those if you're thinking of going. Also, what have they said about pension/life cover?

You should also ask if they'll pay for a one week trip, so you can check out housing, schools etc. Again, this is pretty standard - they won't think you're being cheeky!

Finally, two of the companies my DH worked for provided additional allowances for DSCs, so they could keep in proper contact. Again, I'd ask about this.

We were too timid about asking for stuff when we first went overseas - we're a bit more aware of how much companies will give now! They expect a huge amount in terms of hours worked/pressure - so make sure it'll be a worthwhile move.

Good luck.

Forgot to say: are they paying for moving costs as well?

We moved to NZ 7 years ago. I wanted to, my partner and children wanted to. It's a fantastic country and I had a good job waiting. I don't have any close family and in fact wanted to get away from what family I do have. However, the reality of emigrating was enormous. The sheer amount of work needed to get everything ready, the emotional cost of saying goodbye to friends, and the realisation that you are in a country where no-one knows you and no-one cares about you. I love it now, but the early days took a big toll on my mental health. Only do it if you really want to do it.

There are quite a few things to factor in. We moved to Dubai last summer and there are many hidden costs. I love it here but you really need to come with your eyes open!

Housing 3br in housing estate - £40k rent per year usually payable in 1 or 2 cheques. You potentially need £20k upfront.

Schools range from 35000dhs-65000dhs per year per child. School also starts when they are aged 3 in the year that is called fs1. Schools are hard to get into and there are registration fees to pay - roughly £500 to register with a school with no guarantee of a place. Also a deposit of 10000dhs when each child starts which is deducted off the last ever term.

Food and other groceries are roughly London prices. Some things cheaper and some eye wateringly expensive.

Water and electricity costs us an average of £500 per month. Summer months can be up to £800 and winter as low as £300. It's the a/c that is the killer!

Every little thing you sign up for has a cost involved so tv, phone, converting your driving licence rtc.

Petrol is very cheap! One of the perks!

Eating out can be cheap if you go to unlicensed places. Licences places are very expensive. To consume alcohol you must get a licence.

You'd need to factor in any moving costs such as shipping or buying new stuff when you get here. Many villas are completely unfurnished so you would need curtains/blinds for every room.

I live in the springs and spend every afternoon happily sat I the park with a wonderful group of ladies that I have met. There is a real sense of community and there is plenty to do.

Since you are pregnant you'd need to check your medical covers pregnancy or you would need to buy a pregnancy package. That can get very expensive. The healthcare is very good here though.

My husband earns roughly £100k plus £50k housing and schooling allowance. We are coping ok but still recovering from the setup costs. We hope to be able to start saving in 6 months time. It won't be anywhere near £30k a year though! We have 1 DD age 4.

I have name changed for this.

I have lived and worked in UAE for 5 years. I absolutely love living here, I have a job that I love that is really helping shape the future of the region and my children have a fabulous life. We live near the beach and they have lots of freedom and opportunities I could only ave dreamed of growing up (wakeboarding, sailing, riding, climbing)

There are a number of down sides: politically the situation can be difficult and there are Human Rights issues that are unpalatable, that being said the position has improved vastly in the time I have been here. The summer heat is stiffling, but we survive it by treating it like the British winter - we try to stay in doors.

Cost of living is obscene. We have a nice standard of living and I have three DC, but for example we pay 70k in rent, 36k in school fees (annually) and our grocery bill is close to 1k a month. Flights back to the UK often go up to over 1k each in the summer because of the shear demand.

The national population is wealthy so there are not the drivers for value for money in the same way as there is in the UK: My mobile package is about 80 quid for not a lot, likewise our TV package is about 70.

There is always the option to do things more cheaply but I would say as a minimum as a family of 4 you need to be earning about 90k - I wouldnt expect to be able to save anything out of that.

You should also consider what comes after Dubai - it is very easy to get stuck in the ME rut, firstly because it is virtually impossible to replicate the life style once you leave, houses are big, environment is safe, schools are slightly cheaper than their equivalents in UK and petrol and help is cheap - although at about 7 pound an our not as cheap as some would have you imagine.

More importantly job wise it can be difficult to move on depending on your industry. I am very fortunate in that I have a global role that happens to be based in UAE, but if you only ever experience the ME, that's not attractive to many companies if you want to re - enter the Eurpean market.

The Expatwomen website can give you some info as can the British Expat forum. Good luck

Excellent post PinkLemon.

Yep electricity and water are ridiculously expensive. I agree with your numbers - and of course TV/Internet are much more expensive than the UK £80 per month for a fairly basic package.

It's back to what I said at the start OP do a proper budget before you decide.

Any update OP- did he go for the interview/ get the job?

Abu Dhabi is very different from Dubai and personally I wouldn't want to go, although it is commutable from Dubai. Rents are much higher in Dubai and the motorway linking the two is one of the regions most dangerous road.

As mateysmum said, Dubai isn't cheap, you won't save as much as you think.

We lived in Dubai, at the time I was sad to leave friends there and the lifestyle but I would never go back to live there again, it has to be one of the most frustrating places in the world to live.