To be more than annoyed when people inform me my children need a good smack?

[Slightlyneuroricnat]

It really winds me up.
Not so much the oldies who say " in our day I would have a got a whack for that " but people that can see I'm already having a tough time dealing with 2 toddlers, my eldest daughter is going through a phase ( I bloody hope ) of hitting everyone including me and we always have the same conversation, I don't hit you and you must not hit mummy, you've hurt me and now we are going home.
So we had this yesterday in a park and a lady informed me that I was " wishy washy " and what she actually needed was a good smack herself.
Am I being unreasonable to think she is an ignorant fool or am I some kind of martyr as I don't believe in hitting children?

I'm not biting
im not self important
I'm just saying that years of working with children and a degree on child development has given me an insight into how children develop and I understand the effects of adults behavior on their development

Insincere, are you really comparing your relationship with those children as a childminder with that of their mother? Do you really think they would too?

The point is that, if Insancerre and I can manage children's behaviour effectively and appropriately for years without resorting to fear, violence and humiliation, there is no reason why we, as a society, shouldn't encourage parents to try to do the same.

Actually, if you look at a cross section of posts on MN you'll see that this is exactly what the majority of parents are trying to do.

The has been a long term progression of reducing the violence it is acceptable to use against children and the natural conclusion is that parents will be expected to stop using corporal punishment at some point.

Add message | Report | Message poster NeedsAsockamnesty Sat 22-Mar-14 10:02:49
Surely if you think it's ok then you wouldn't care if children's services became involved, you could just tell them you are a great parent and all would be well.

It was not a general observation, it was a question, and as Spero does not smack her child it wasn't directed at her. The only other way it works is if you are observing that children's services approach every family they investigate with the intention of intervention before investigating. You'd be adding weight to Daily Mail type theories of child snatching social services and be in a minority of one amongst the social workers I know if that's your opinion.

And why on earth have you presumed that my DH and I met in a way that had anything to do with his job? .

I see that reaching illogical conclusions based on absolutely nothing ix a pattern of yours.

Similar happened to me at the shops today. My daughter was excited and grabbed her new toy off the conveyor before the woman scanned it. The woman made a comment about snatching and I just smiled and asked dd to put it back so the lady could scan it. The shop keeper then put it in a bag and passed it to dd saying "if my kids didnt help they didnt eat" then went on to say how undisciplined kids could be. I said "well hopefully we will bring up our kids gently and society will be a much nicer place, as my generation is generally full of arse holes who rebel against the fact that their emotional needs werent met" then I smiled very sweetly and paid and left..she stayed silent.

The point is, gold, that as child care providers your relationship with them is absolutely nothing like their relationship with their parents and you hold nothing like the responsibility for them. If you're both nursery workers you don't manage a child's behaviour effectively for anything more than a year or two tops and you only do that for a set amount of hours in a day. Your role in each and everyone of the children for whom you care's overall lives is nothing like that of their parents and is comparably insignificant.

Mumsnet is not a cross section of society, it is an Internet forum which is actually and like any other Internet forum has a specific readership. Judging what 'most people' across the country do by reading the posts on mumsnet would be just plain stupid.

Fefifo, that's your opinion on how you view sensitive people. Some may say you come across as emotionally detached but hey, whatever makes you feel justified in your minority opinion.
I have noticed that you failed to address any of my other points about respect or as to why similar behaviour between adults is justified?
I'm going to assume its because you don't have answer.

Bravo jelly mum!

Yes fefifo, I said and will repeat - smacking is bad parenting. People who smack are bad parents. This is a conclusion I reach after 20 years of my own experiences, both personal and professional, observations, discussion and thought.

But you are the one continually making the leap from this to a conclusion that this must automatically mean the state intervenes to remove the children.

Sadly there are 100,000s children living right now with poor parenting. Just not bad enough to justify state intervention.

O and btw my daughter was in nursery full time from 7 months so the care from her key work was not 'comparatively insignificant' to mine. And if the key worker had slapped her I would have made sure that person lost her job.

Just to add because I am getting a little cross.

Lack of empathy for individuals sensitivity to any situation on the basis that they are being hysteric because it doesn't you and as long you feel you're alright Jack is classic narcissism.

I am the last person to be sympathetic to whiney hysterics. I am cold, hard and lacking in empathy.

So if even I can see the damage done to children by some types of parenting, it does make me wonder about the level of emotional detachment of some posters here and what on earth happened to them whilst growing up.

The point is, gold, that as child care providers your relationship with them is absolutely nothing like their relationship with their parents and you hold nothing like the responsibility for them.

The relationship is not the point at all.

It is better to manage children's behaviour without resorting to fear, humiliation and violence. If I can do it for other people's children there is no reason why I shouldn't be expected to do the same for my own.

that was actually a response to the post that appeared about 6 times in a row right before mine.

But feel free to carry on making everything about you

I don't expect a preschool age childcare provider to love my dd as much as I do, I don't even expect them to like her. I do however expect them to guide her into making correct decisions, teach her the difference between right and wrong when appropriate, protect her from pain and harm as much as possible and give her lots of enjoyment and encouragement so the start of her educational journey commences in a positive way.

Intervention can be as simple as making suggestions,giving advice or facilitating support it does not have to mean removing someone's children.

I agree with you Needs, people need educating in parenting, especially if they want smacking to stop.

Jellymum,
Well done to you.
If I wasn't so angry at the time I would have fathomed a similar reply.
What a silly woman.

agree needs
and its part of my job
I am asked for advice on managing children's behavior every day
and I have never told a parent to snack their child

I don't hold responsibility for another adult. I'll use the road example for ease.

If my DH were to run out in the road and be knocked down by a car I would be very, very sad but I would not feel like I had been responsible in any way. If one of my DC did the same I would be wholly responsible.

If my DH doesn't want to take his medicine, sit in a shitty nappy, smack his mother in the face, not wear a hat and gloves when it's minus three outside, put his hand over a hot stove to see what fire feels like, eat a diet consisting of nothing but crap, push someone else's DH over for touching his car and anything else inbetween I would certainly frown and for some of them I would LTB, but that would be his chosen course, as an adult, and have nothing to do with me.

What are you referring to Fefifo?

of course you wouldn't be wholly responsible for your child a actions fefifo
they have free will seeing as they are their own person
but I guess you don't see them as individuals
only as your possessions for you do with as you wish
that's the difference

I'm confused, in an earlier post F you insinuate that what happens when a child is with an outside care provider for a few hours for a few months, they have no impact.
Yes they do.

If they are poor, inadequate care providers or they are malicious, that could manifest itself in some very negative ways for many many years.

how can it be insignificant when many children spend all day all week in a nursery
they actually spend more time with the key person than they do their own parents

Insancerre, you wouldn't feel any guilt if one of the children you look after were to run out into the road and be hit by a car whist in your care? How strange.

Beck's, if anybody comes into contact with a child and treats them maliciously that could manifest itself in negative ways for many years. That could include other children or the grandmother they see twice a month.

But even if you do hold with the ridiculous theory that childcarers are exactly the same as parents then that line of thought doesn't hold water with my argument anyway because I'm not talking about poor inadequate parents that treat their kids maliciously. I agree that is bad. I am talking about loving parents and by loving I don't just mean they say it, I mean they manifest it in their actions, like for just some examples, holding and cuddling their children all night long when they have a tummy bug, and telling them they're the best artist in the whole world when they are presented with a picture of a dog that looks like a tree, like reading with them every day and taking them to loads of fantastic places to expand their horizons, and checking them regularly for nits and making sure they are clean and their homes are clean and going without so they can do the extra football lessons or missing meals so they can pay for the extortionate year 6 trip and I could give a billion other examples. Those kind of parents, and those are the parents that I know who smack, are not going to give their kids long term damage by smacking them on the hand once in a few months in my opinion.

What a bloody storm in a teacup. Surely an emergency rap - not leaving a mark, not painful, more of a tap- to get a child to stop running across the road is not the end of the world?

Also aren't we conflating aforesaid tap with slaps and all other manner of violence?