To think playgroup shouldn't withhold food from DD for not saying thank you

[Tweasels]

...or am I being a PFB twat.

She's 2.5 and not actually my PFB but my second.

Her speech isn't brilliant, she talks loads, has wide vocabulary but pronounciation is poor. I understand her but others don't always. Spoke to friend who is a SALT who said nothing to worry about...anyhoo..

Picked her up from playgroup this morning where they'd made scones. DD goes to get hers from worker who says "Say thank you" as she hands it to her. DD won't say thank you, never does. We work on it every bloody day but she won't say it. So worker pulls scone away from DD and repeats "Say Thank you". DD just looking up at her so again she pulls it away.

This happened 3 times before I intervened, explained she can't say it and took the scone off her myself. (I obviously said thank you )

DD looked quite humiliated and was quite upset on the way home.

I think the worker was wrong to do this? Your thoughts?

[WorraLiberty]

I'd take 'Ta' over a child who doesn't acknowledge someone giving them something any day.

[Tweasels]

Enjoyingmycoffee I think the same as you. Thanks.

Hobbet and TheGreatHunt Modelling is the method I use. She hears us saying thank you all the time in general conversation etc. I also make a point of playing games that encourage exchanges of manners such as shops. I agree that this must be the best method. It is how they learn all the other words after all.

I'm actually not overly concerned that she can't say it. She will say it and she'll learn to use it appropriately in time just like all the other things she's learning.

My concern is with the worker and whether that is standard practice. If it is fine, I'll suck it up. I'm just not convinced.

[BeyondRepair]

Thanks Hazy I will knock it as I loathe it.

Children with speech delays and problems, is a different ball game.

To me if ta has the intention that means thanks, then so does the smile and acknowledgement that the ops DD did.

[Tweasels]

Sorry thread is moving faster than my slow hands.

There's nothing with ta - quite normal where I live. I'd be more than happy with that. Don't get word snobbery AT ALL.

And to clarify for the last time...I have at no point and neither has anyone on on the thread as far as I can see suggested that children shouldn't have manners. You are missing the point. Which could br deemed as rude

[RiverTam]

DD can speak very well and could at 2.5 but she is dreadfully shy, especially when on the spot or the focus is right on her, and it took a long time for her to say 'thank you' but we just kept saying it for her and prompting/modelling and she got there eventually and now says it fine. She was also awful at saying goodbye, would just run away, and she is still, at age 4, shocking with presents, gets almost hysterical when someone gives her a present (someone she doesn't see all the time, like GPs). So, YANBU.

[HobbetInTheHeadlights]

My concern is with the worker and whether that is standard practice.

Came across it with eldest preschool with some staff in similar way to OP- wasn't widely happy with the place over all.

Much less common in the school and school nursery but I have seen staff push for an answer when they know the DC very well to get a treat or thing made possibly knowing the DC can do it but they do it with smiles on face and lots of teasing - plus let it go if it's clearly not happening with good grace and smiles letting the DC know it o.k. and DC gets the item anyway. That felt different like a game the DC was in on.

So not sure how standard or good the practice is - but I have come across it.

[TeWiSavesTheDay]

My DC have (so far!) all been quite slow to develop speech, dd1 certainly had huge difficulty with speaking outside of her home - loads of people didn't realise she could speak at all!

At the early stages she babbled very little and didn't echo. Which is what being say x or I will do y relies on a child understanding/doing.

We used modelling, her speech has come on really well, I always get complimented on how good her manners are.

She will get there, and yanbu, threats aren't helpful or advised for a child that struggles.

[BeyondRepair]

Oh not sure if that last para is directed at me Tweasles?

I absolutely think children should have manners and my DC have impeccable manners. Whether a 2.5 year old always says Thanks or Thank you however is not a huge deal to me. Encourage YES but if they don't get it yet, I do not care.

But measuring the two incidents here, one being a 2.5 child has not said thank you and in return the adult worker has tried to withhold food...In my mind there is no comparison, the 2.5 year olds response pails into in significance.

If the workers response was a usual one, then I would strongly challenge that, as it gives them too much power over the children, they should not have any jurisdiction AT ALL to have control over what the child eats.

[TeWiSavesTheDay]

Just to say dd1 didn't officially have any kind of speech delay, just at the later end of normal. It is normal for sine children to find this sort of thing hard and take a while to catch on.

[Tweasels]

No Beyond not aimed at you. I agree with you (except about Ta - but that's a colloquial thing I think)

I've had issue with this woman before, this is why I was asking for opinion. I wasn't sure whether the previous incident had clouded my judgement. I don't think it has.

To be fair to her, I think she's generally very good. She's just a bit "old school". And obviously some parents (according to this thread anyway) prefer that approach. It's just not something I've came accross before when my son was in childcare.

[Tweasels]

Thanks TeWi that sounds very like my DD too, very reassuring.

[Babiecakes91]

My son will be 3 in May and he can not say 1 word, I feel so awkward when people try talk to him and he doesn't understand what they are saying to him and they then get upset that's he's ignoring them, when the truth is he has autism and doesn't know how to engage with people e doesn't know.
People jump to the conclusion all 2 years olds know how to talk and can say hi bye please Thankyou when a lot of children are still learning to understand words before they can say them.
If your child has never said it then there is a chance they don't know how to yet.

[nerfgunsftw]

Forcing the child to say thank-you is exactly the same as forcing the child to say 'uncle '. Its an imposition of power. Once they are older you can explain how our society rules work and how not saying it is rude.

[Essiebee]

So: you undermined the authority of the playgroup worker by allowing your child to have something without saying 'thank you', clearly a playgroup rule; next time she will imitate you and attempt to take it. You should have left it behind and explained why on the way home, when she was upset. Are you sure her hearing is satisfactory, and her understanding? If it is then she is simply ill-mannered and you are reinforcing it.

[missfliss]

YANBU end of.
at this age and stage its not manners its a sort of social anxiety around speaking

[TeWiSavesTheDay]

I worried a lot when was younger tweasel, and she is still nervous to speak around adults she doesn't know. She worries about getting things wrong, so it takes her longer to have the confidence to try. (she is really stubborn as well!)

Preschool and reception have been great for her, and she has learnt from more confident children as well as us.

I'm sure your DD will have similar catch up moments. (maybe even shooting ahead) They're great!

My friend told me her DS hardly spoke until they took him somewhere they didn't like and he wanted to go home! He speaks very well now.

[missfliss]

moldingsunbeams my son similiarly is a selctive mute, luckily his CM understands this.
Do you have any tips on helping him you could share?

Sorry OP for derailing thread

[TeWiSavesTheDay]

Essibee you are wrong and ignorant about speech development.

[Ludways]

My ds had a problem with the word "sorry", he literally had a block when it came to that word, he was simply distraught when asked to say it. It stressed him completely. I've had to pull one woman away from him who was literally in his face trying to force him to say it, he was stood in floods of tears; her berating him was a far worse crime than him accidentally knocking over a drink.

As he grew older I taught him other ways to show it and other words he could use to express himself.

He's 12 now and has no problem saying it, in fact he now knows lots of ways to express regret, lol.

[FredFredGeorge]

What was the little girl supposed to be thanking the adult for? It was her scone, she made it, she wasn't being given it by the adult, the adult was just controlling access to it for some reason. The behaviour by the adult doesn't teach the child to be thankful for people doing things for you, it teaches her purely that adults take control of your things and make you say magic words that might help.

Teach thankfulness, not rituals.

[Tweasels]

Essiebee

How can a playgroup possibly have a rule that children have to say thank you before having something when not all of the children can say thank you? What an absurd notion. She can't say pineapple either, does that mean she shouldn't be allowed to eat it?

And arf at ill mannered Have you met many 2 year olds? Thank you for your input though, your degree in child development is in the post.

[Tweasels]

missfliss derail away, hope you get some help.

[PeaceEagle]

Teaching manners is the same as teaching anything else. You explain, model, reinforce. Always calmly. It is obvious whether small children are actively trying to be rude (rare for a 2.5 year old, surely?!) and when they simply don't understand rituals yet. Daft to withhold food because of it.

[Tweasels]

mouldingsunbeams that is hideous. I don't actually understand all the vitriol towards children who don't conform to the norm. I hope things are better for DD now.