To think playgroup shouldn't withhold food from DD for not saying thank you

[Tweasels]

...or am I being a PFB twat.

She's 2.5 and not actually my PFB but my second.

Her speech isn't brilliant, she talks loads, has wide vocabulary but pronounciation is poor. I understand her but others don't always. Spoke to friend who is a SALT who said nothing to worry about...anyhoo..

Picked her up from playgroup this morning where they'd made scones. DD goes to get hers from worker who says "Say thank you" as she hands it to her. DD won't say thank you, never does. We work on it every bloody day but she won't say it. So worker pulls scone away from DD and repeats "Say Thank you". DD just looking up at her so again she pulls it away.

This happened 3 times before I intervened, explained she can't say it and took the scone off her myself. (I obviously said thank you )

DD looked quite humiliated and was quite upset on the way home.

I think the worker was wrong to do this? Your thoughts?

[Odaat]

I hate spoilt kids- and there are many about. But the lady should have taken into account maybe the we girl is shy/ has speech problems etc. I dunno... It seems a bit unfair , but in a way I think too many kids are so rude these days and maybe it is good to be actively pushing manners , but in a soft way.

[LegoStillSavesMyLife]

In my world the child wouldn't have got the scone. That is how you learn to say please and thank you. Don't say it don't get it. Neither of my DC have been too shy to speak though.

I think the nursery worker was simply teaching your DC to say thank you, how else do you learn ?

Presumably the nursery worker know what speach of DC is capable of? I doubt she was expecting the Queen's English, just a nod in the "ankoo" direction.

[NonnoMum]

Just a thought, mine sometimes forgot/refused to say Thank You... Our nursery used to use a lot of British Sign Language, we would sign thank you in these high-pressure situations....

Will find a link...

[BumpyGrindy]

SOME children of this age have less social ability than others....so all those who are being totally snooty and saying "Why can't he say it?" should open their minds.

My DD is 9 and at this age she would freeze when an adult asked her to "say thank you" or "say hello"

She wasn't rude...just extremely shy....in fact I think she had selective mutism looking back.

OP...does DS talk well at home?

[BumpyGrindy]

lego in YOUR world things must be very narrow indeed. It's not always about the capability of forming the words but sometimes the emotional issues which arise through feeling on the spot.

[HobbetInTheHeadlights]

hmm - my DC are very polite - so I'm told and will say please and thank you unprompted.

However is situations like this with someone demanding it especially at this young age their shyness has kicked in and they didn't give the response wanted.

I usually intervened as you did OP but it has on occasions upset them. It's not an approach that was helpful with my DC.

Nor do I like saying oh they are shy to explain. I was told I was daft about the label shy but middle DC did when other people kept using it start self labeling and then using it as a reason he couldn't do stuff.

[Enjoyingmycoffee]

It doesn't matter whether she couldn't or just didn't.

She's 2.5! Has absolutely bugger all idea about the importance of thank you. And those who pipe up with my 2.5 does know how important it is to say thank you, no - they don't. They do however understand that you say this random word, when you remember, when you get a treat.

I used to say 'thank you' to my son from about 6 months old! He also experienced speech problems, but there was a healthy dollop of just refusing to say the word because it was being demanded of him.

At 3.5, he has now 'got it' and genuinely sayes thank you. Not just for treats, but if seine opens a door open for him or similar.

The year between 2.5 and 3.5 is a big one. Your dd will get it OP. And in the meantime, I think you did the right thing. That playgroup worker was being daft.

[HobbetInTheHeadlights]

I think the nursery worker was simply teaching your DC to say thank you, how else do you learn ?

Example mainly with mine and occasional single reminder prompt.

Mine say thank you when they get of buses cause that what I do - no one has every prompted them to do this - as I'm not sure why I always do.

[TheGreatHunt]

You need to model please and thanks if you want her to say it. That was the quickest way to get my two to say it as they copied me and each other. Not by forcing them to.

[Mrskeylime]

'At a party once I though SIL was going to strangle me as I ate the chocolate DN wanted piece by piece until she actually had the manners ( like all the other children I was feeding chocolate to) to actually speak to me!! '

That's awful.

[MoChan]

I think being this hard line with a child so young is pointless and even counter-productive.

The play group worker clearly feels as though this is a lesson your child needs to learn, but trying to hammer it in doesn't necessarily work with tiny children.

A lot of children can't say things if you tell them to say it. I suspect it's because of something a bit like stage-fright. When they are supposed to say something, when it's expected, when they come under pressure and are ordered to, I think they become more and more self-conscious and less and less likely to 'perform'.

I also think forcing children to get over shyness by withdrawal of nice things if they don't act appropriately is just mean and horrible. I think shy children would get out of being shy much more quickly if they weren't treated by so many adults as wilfully uncooperative, or difficult, or pathetic.

[MarianneEnjolras]

violet at least I'm not the only one. I've never made a big deal of it as I didn't want to make it a bigger issue for him.

To build his confidence, I have been taking him to the library and making ds hand the old book back to the lady at the desk, then after he's chosen a new one I make him hand it and his library card over.

The people who work there are lovely and talk to him even though all he does is smile at them and giggle. When we first starting going he wouldn't go anywhere near the desk but now he can do all the handing over etc no problem. He just still won't talk so I do all the talking but leave a pause so he can pipe up whenever he wants; so it goes "Say thank you to the lady..." so I say "thank you" to her myself. "Say bye bye then" so I say bye. Can't see any other way of teaching him how you are supposed to behave.

Since he was tiny I have always said please and thank you to him when I ask him to do something and dh and I say it to each other all the time too.

One day he will get it I'm sure.

[Littlefish]

If she nodded and smiled, then that's a "thank you" as far as I'm concerned. I'm an early years teacher and we have children who do everything from say "thank you very much, that's really lovely", to "ta" to waving, nodding, or in one case, blinking. They all mean the same thing!

[Jolleigh]

To be fair to the nursery worker, withholding what is essentially a treat (not a meal) because a child hasn't displayed good manners is far from draconian. If your DD is struggling with a particular word, there are many alternatives...someone up thread has suggested signing, which is a brilliant idea if it's the sounds that your DD can't get her mouth around. I'd have done precisely what the nursery worker did if I wasn't aware of an issue.

[cory]

Marianne, I was that child. Horribly shy and would freeze completely, particularly if somebody looked at me in that exhortationary way.

Yet I have no difficulty in saying 'please' and 'thank you' as an adult.

My mother taught me by modelling and patience.

[MarianneEnjolras]

Oh and sorry I got carried away hijacking your thread OP clearly have terrible manners myself , but all I really wanted to show you was that i don't think yabu.

[MoChan]

Oh, and my 6yo daughter has been very automatic with her thanks for many years, and we didn't really 'teach' her. We just did what we do in life, which is to always thank everyone, including her, whenever it's appropriate to do so, and she has clearly picked that up.

[Doodleoinkquack]

I doubt a 2.5 year old felt humiliation, but don't doubt she was upset with the whole situation.

You're trying to teach her. So was the other woman, this method comes naturally to me with my own DD (2.9, also shy with strangers) but she says please and thank you willingly anyway. I wouldn't do it with another child. Howeverm I don't think she was wrong to do it, but would've been if she had refused to let her have it at all (if you hadn't stepped in) as long as your DD was otherwise patiently waiting her turn.

She's so young bless her, of course she's still learning, but don't let her see you be oversensitive to her own failings if that makes sense? I have to stop myself saying in front of DD that she is shy when she is reluctant to talk to people because I don't want it to become self reinforcing, and most people can see she's nervous and back off until she comes round.

It's not a big deal.

[Fusedog]

I thinks it's really rude and frankly a awful trend that parents don't think there children should say please or thank you


Or even hello or goodbuy when entering a home my nephew has to stand by the door until he says hello I won't be ignored in my own home buy a frigging 5 year old

[Mrskeylime]

I agree with cory. Children learn respect by modelling and patience. 'Thank you' is just a word to many children of 2.5 years.
Being able to parrot a word at appropriate times does not necessarily indicate that the child has learnt respect for other people.

[BeyondRepair]

Can she say 'ta'? I would have maybe prompted her to say that instead? But the worker was mean

I would rather my child said nothing than uttered this awful non word.

I cannot bear Ta.

i think the worker was ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

The idea is that they are trying to teach a thankyou, your child is not ready, so a nice smile and chuckle....hand over the bloody scone!

It really concerns me that staff think its OK to behave in this way.

It. Is. Not.

Some children will not be able to say thank you. what was the point of her excersie.

[BeyondRepair]

In fact, If the worker had said ta to my child or encouraged her to say Ta, there would have been words.

[hazeyjane]

here is the bsl and makaton sign for 'thankyou'.

My ds has no speech at all, but will sign thankyou if prompted. However I think if a child has problems with speaking up due to shyness or anxiety, then trying to force a thankyou is pointless and counter productive. I was selectively mute as a child, and people trying to get me to speak just seemed to have the opposite effect!

[lottieandmia]

YANBU - you are trying to prompt her and you are doing all you can. Eventually it will click. She's only 2 - that's still very young. Withholding food is likely to be counter productive IMHO.

[hazeyjane]

bloody hell BeyondRepair, if my ds said 'ta' I would be over the moon, I wouldn't care if he said, 'ta' or 'thankyou kindly ma'am' - it is a word and the intention is 'thanks' - don't knock it!