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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think, minimum wage, minimum effort

227 replies

angelos02 · 19/03/2014 07:44

If you think all I am worth is the absolute legal minimum you can pay me then you will get the absolute minimum I can get away with. Common sense really.

OP posts:
Joysmum · 19/03/2014 11:58

ThatBloodyWoman

But why the fuck should a minimum wage emplyee with no hope of furtherance go the extra mile, and stay late or miss tea breaks, or put an extra gleam on the toilet bowl they've just cleaned? Just why?

I explained why up thread, because it's an opportunity. All jobs are opportunities as nobody works in isolation.

To not work to the best of your abilities shows lack of self respect and a facile attitude.

Should all if us only would as hard as our pay remunerated us for? Should somebody earning £10ph as a teacher would half as hard as somebody earning £20 in an office? It's ridiculous to think that this should be so.

manicinsomniac · 19/03/2014 12:00

hickory that is disgusting. I'm not surprised she's unemployed now!

In general I'd like to think you get out what you put in but I appreciate that isn't always the case. I don't think anyone can help themselves by deliberately not trying hard in their job though. Apart from anything else it makes it much more boring.

I don't agree with this though:
That's all very well but there are too many jobs where extra effort gets you nowhere. Especially retail, care sector, etc. I've worked in those. I'm now a TA (8 years) and we don't get paid any more for extra effort, we dont get incremental pay for experience, and even though several of us did our hlta status there are no hlta jobs.

TAs, ime, get paid far less but have much more opportunity to get 'extras' than teachers do and obviously don't have to do as much (rightly so of course!)

I am running a revision course in our school holidays and a child with a statement of SEN has signed up which means I need a 1:1 for them. The TA who has (kindly, I admit) volunteered to give up two days of her holidays to help the child and me will be paid on her hourly rate. I will be preparing and delivering the course for free. That's fine because I earn more but it is definitely the TA and not me who is being paid for the extra effort.

happybubblebrain · 19/03/2014 12:04

I completely agree with missymarmite.

I don't earn minimum wage, but I haven't had a payrise for nearly 10 years, none of us has. We have also been told there is never going to be one, neither is there ever going to be any chance of promotion. We all work very hard, because if we didn't we would get sacked.

Employers are exploiting employees when they pay minimum wage. It needs to be raised because it is impossible to live on it. If I was in a minimum wage job I'd quickly work out if hard work was going to pay off or not (usually it doesn't). If not, then I'd then put in the effort I was being paid for and not a penny more. That is the only sensible attitude to have.

uselessidiot · 19/03/2014 12:09

You should go the extra mile because it's the right thing to do. As joysmum says anything else shows a lack of self respect. My work is considered worthless by society and I'm regularly called stupid and lazy. I constantly worry about how right they are because I long to be a proper human being. Going the extra mile and striving to give 100% goes part way to reassuring myself that I am not in fact lazy.

Joysmum · 19/03/2014 12:09

I'm training for a profession after being a SAHM.

Those low paid jobs I put my all into all gave me glowing references and helped me to climb. If I put myself out for others this will inspire a proportion to do the same for me.

It's not all about the immediate gratification of what you get paid now.

There's quite a number if people on this this thread those attitude tells me I'd never want to work with them, for them or employ them.

ephemeralfairy · 19/03/2014 12:11

I earn just above minimum wage in the public sector, pay freeze for ages, constant threats of redundancies etc etc. I really like the field I'm in and in fact that's where I want to pursue a career: however the way my department (and in fact the organization as a whole) is structured means that people at my level have no chance of progression unless we do an expensive postgrad degree in a specialist subject (we all have undergrad degrees already). So in short, there is no incentive to push yourself at all really.

There are times when I think 'fuck you, you pay me badly and offer me no chance of career progression or development, I'm jolly well not putting myself out for you today!' But then those times are outweighed by the times that I go the extra mile (and then some!) simply because I like what I do and believe in its value.

I think it's a bit different in retail: it's perfectly possible to start at the bottom and work up because there aren't the same barriers in the form of expensive qualifications.

ShadowOfTheDay · 19/03/2014 12:18

I earn NMW in retail and there are big barriers... my employer will not promote... they employ shop floor staff and they employ managers....

if you are a good shop floor worker you will never become a manager - because they want good shop floor workers on the shop floor.

Madasabox · 19/03/2014 12:33

It's not a great answer, but it is supply and demand and market economics. Capitalism, essentially. NMW jobs are normally NMW because there is a large pool of people willing and able to do them. If there were not then wages would have to go up to a level where people would do them. So...... it is what it is and as many posters have said, attitudes matter and self respect is important

unlucky83 · 19/03/2014 12:34

latara NHS dentist £18 per visit - £36 per year - £3 per month. If you need work £49 for that visit.
Holidays £250 all inclusive to spain etc £21 pm

40hr per week NMW - £250 pw, £1090 pm - after deductions will be about £1000.
'nice' lipsticks Confused how much do nice lipsticks cost? (Don't do makeup but just bought one for my DDs for a show - £1) and gym membership -a jog round the block and few sit ups at home will get you just as healthy... those last 2 are consumerism - exactly what I'm talking about - you don't need them - you have been lead to believe you do!
For a single person - if they had a rent of £200pm - would leave £800pm - I think that is enough to live on? For families much harder - (but then you get CB and tax credits) ...

Original poster
angelos02 · 19/03/2014 12:38

Unlucky rent of £200? Where do you live? Or are you assuming people house-share? No-one working full time should have to house-share.

OP posts:
LuisSuarezTeeth · 19/03/2014 12:43

Unlucky - really? Confused

ShadowOfTheDay · 19/03/2014 12:47

that is the trouble - the IF they had a rent of £200 - even a scabby single bedsit round here is 450pm - then council tax/water and electric/gas and travel to work ... take it up to around 850pm leaving 150pm for tv license(or is that consumerism)/broadband/phone/insurance/clothes/shoes/food/dentist/optician/prescriptions etc

it doesn't go far.... when you get to decide between polish for your work shoes (you have to be "presentable" despite having no money) or a cheap loaf of bread, NMW does not look so hot....

manicinsomniac · 19/03/2014 12:48

angelos - the vast majority of single people without children that I know in their early twenties to mid thirties who have a range of very normal low average - high averagely paid jobs house share. This is normal isn't it?

unlucky83 · 19/03/2014 12:54

I posted earlier that a big part of the problem with NMW was house prices/rent being out of control for the last 10-15 yrs - IF rents were reasonable it wouldn't be such a problem ...
I think £200 pm rent is reasonable - I know that isn't what is being charged - but if it was - the NMW would be liveable ...
Latara said even if rents were reasonable it wouldn't be...but I think it would - especially for a single person...

Original poster
angelos02 · 19/03/2014 13:00

I think £200 pm rent is reasonable - I know that isn't what is being charged - but if it was - the NMW would be liveable So back in the real world where rent is upwards of £400 per month, you won't have much money left to, you know, actually live.

OP posts:
Bedtime1 · 19/03/2014 13:00

I don't know how small companies and start ups make any money with the minimum wage being 6.31 per hour. It's very high and set to rise. It puts you off starting a business really I think. If you are on 6.31 and people see it as minimum effort then it puts you off even more.

Original poster
angelos02 · 19/03/2014 13:01

£6.31 'very high'. I'm guessing you earn more than that yourself so you're OK? Bedtime

OP posts:
unlucky83 · 19/03/2014 13:08

shadow really £850 pm? For a single person???
Family of 4, 3 bed house -energy bills/council tax/2 cars inc petrol, tax, insurance/landline/tv licence/house insurance - comes to less than £500 pm
On NMW that would leave £300 for food,clothes etc-(and no single person c tax discount and 1 car less) -
£300 a struggle for a family but then CB and tax credits...

MajorGrinch · 19/03/2014 13:12

You're totally ignoring the points being made OP - businesses aren't charities, they pay what they can afford to.

The real problem is the hugely over inflated housing market. Say the minimum wage goes up to £10 per hour. You can guarantee straight away that house prices and renting costs would rise to match.

A bedsit costing £450 now, would cost £600 then & more than eat up the difference.

I've always taken pride in what I do & worked hard &, so far, it's paid off....

Southeastdweller · 19/03/2014 13:13

Hmm....what's the saying..'pay peanuts get monkeys'

I loathe that ridiculous phrase and how insulting to those people on NMW who work hard Angry

unlucky83 · 19/03/2014 13:16

Angelos02 I said small businesses can find it hard to afford even NMW...
It is a problem - a real problem.
As major says
Housing costs are huge in proportion to wages...which puts the pressure on the NMW to increase...they should never have been allowed to spiral the way they have...and not sure what you can do now as so many people (me included) have paid more than they are really worth for a house...

uselessidiot · 19/03/2014 13:17

My take home pay is 856. We're lucky to live in a low rent area so our rent is 380 pm, council tax is 120, commuting is 200. Just as well there's such a thing as CB.

anastaisia · 19/03/2014 13:28

Depends. If I've worked minimum wage for small local businesses who pay that because its what they can afford to pay, I've felt it's quite different to working for a bigger company who could have afforded to pay a bit more to keep good staff but choose not to. I've never not done the job, but I would have gone above and beyond for the small businesses that I felt were treating me more fairly despite the pay being the same. I think it really depends on the job and the circumstances a lot.

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 19/03/2014 13:30

Rent of £200 a month. In London you would do well to rent for £800!

10 years ago I was renting in Nottingham at pretty much the bottom of the rental market and I paid £300 a month

Bedtime1 · 19/03/2014 13:44

The 6.31 is set by the government as 'minimum' wage but it's very high so really you shouldn't think of it as minimum means minimum effort.
Companies can't survive and it's set to go up. It will put many companies off employing meaning less jobs.

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