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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think, minimum wage, minimum effort

227 replies

angelos02 · 19/03/2014 07:44

If you think all I am worth is the absolute legal minimum you can pay me then you will get the absolute minimum I can get away with. Common sense really.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/03/2014 08:27

YABU. Bad/good attitude to work is not a function of the level of pay. Many people in minimum wage jobs see them as entry-level, a stepping stone to something better and are very motivated.

Tryharder · 19/03/2014 08:27

It depends.

When I started in my job about 20 years ago, it was enough to turn up, do your job competently for the hours required and then go home.

But now there seems to be an expectation to go the extra mile, do extra stuff, join teams etc - all for relatively less pay given rates of inflation and increase in the cost of living.

I am sort of with the OP but see how it's worded badly. Doing the minimum should be ok as long as you are working competently and reasonably efficiently. If the 'minimum' means skiving and doing a bad job, then clearly it's not acceptable.

My DH recently did a stint in a supermarket and the way he was worked and spoken to was shocking. I couldn't believe how it was thought acceptable for an adult human being to talk to another adult human being in a professional context.

TheresAHedgehogInMyPocket · 19/03/2014 08:28

The teenagers and young people that work wt my workplace ae on minimum wage and they work really hard. I agree it is low, but it doesn't mean you are worthless or should work less.

thecatfromjapan · 19/03/2014 08:29

It's crazy. Humans are mortal.

You would think that the biggest determinant of value would be that background of mortality.

Thus care, that enhances human life, would be accorded a vast value.

But no.

Sometimes I wonder if capitalism is actually driven by a huge fear of death, and a desire to deny its inevitability.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/03/2014 08:29

"Can anyone think of anything that is valuable, just not in money terms?"

Plenty of things are valuable beyond the purely monetary but paid work is, by definition, a commodity that conforms to basic economic rules.

MsUumellmahaye · 19/03/2014 08:30

why don't you try being a dental nurse in private practice, work there arses off, have to be qualified, have to get cpd and now have to pay registration for the privilege, most of these nurses are not far off minimum wage.

NoArmaniNoPunani · 19/03/2014 08:33

MsU: that's interesting as that was the job I was referring to previously. Our trainee nurses are on £9 per hour and the practice pays for their registration and CPD.

ajandjjmum · 19/03/2014 08:33

Inbetween those earning a fortune per hour, and those on Benefits Street, there are millions of us working for the best for ourselves, our families, and believe it or not, our employees.

When things were tough several years ago, we were earning far less than our employees - certainly below minimum wage. Now things have picked up again, we're having the benefit. Just the way it works. But of course, that does mean us working probably every other weekend and late into the evenings without overtime etc.

If someone works for us and works hard, they will be rewarded in terms of money and position. If they start on minimum wage - obviously resent being there - and we don't feel that they're worth more, it's up to them to find another employer who thinks that they are.

I sleep well at night, because I'm knackered from working hard!

CogitoErgoSometimes · 19/03/2014 08:35

This country has gone through a few times when it was a 'sellers' market' for jobs. One was just after the Black Death in the middle ages when the population had been decimated and there was a shortage of people to do work. Wages rocketed as employers competed. Another time was post war for similar reasons. Now we have free movement and an oversupply of low-skill labour, the pendulum has swung the other way,

FiloPasty · 19/03/2014 08:36

I think you will never earn above minimum wage if you have that attitude.

I started on minimum wage and ended up on a salary of over 50k. I have no qualifications other than my GCSE's but always put in 110% in every job I had. I was the first to arrive, always gave fantastic customer service, and led by example.

MajorGrinch · 19/03/2014 08:38

YABU - if you only ever put in minimum effort, you'll only ever be on minimum wage.

With regards to the "unscrupulous" employers that pay minimum wage - in a lot of cases they can't afford to pay any more - it's unrealistic to expect low skill, menial jobs to attract any more than the minimum.

But, if you do the job well and effectively the chance for advancement is there, which is why coasting along isn't the best option....

WooWooOwl · 19/03/2014 08:39

Catfromjapan, I am someone that does feel very valued in my job despite only earning just above minimum wage. It's rewarding, and it has other benefits to my life that aren't financial.

The unpaid voluntary work I do is even more valuable to society and is even more rewarding. It's not all about money.

The attitude that it's good to do the bare minimum at work because you are paid the minimum wage is shameful IMO.

SpringyReframed · 19/03/2014 08:39

As a result of my divorce (worked in the family business previously) I've been working in minimum wage jobs. At first I was completely motivated to prove my worth and work up the ladder to something better. Sadly this enthusiasm has been knocked out of me.

In my former business we never paid anyone as low as minimum wage. They had responsibility and were paid accordingly.The business was very profitable. I have been expected to take responsibility and yet not paid for it. There is no way that anyone on minimum wage should have to do this. It is exploitation and dreadfully stressful. You get home at the end of the week exhausted having worked often unsociable hours for less that £250. It is bloody outrageous.

ThatBloodyWoman · 19/03/2014 08:40

Well done Filo! (Genuinely )

But you cannot create opportunity where there simply is none.

Joysmum · 19/03/2014 08:41

Anyone who has any degree of self respect will always work to the best of their abilities.

My DH head hunted somebody he used to work with who was doing a much lesser job because recognised he had the capabilities to do so much more and the personal qualities to do his best.

If I were looking to employ somebody and couldn't afford to pay more than the minimum wage and the value they added to the company wasn't worth more then I would do so. Employers have the option to pay the going rate for every job plus a premium, if that's financially viable, in order to keep them. Sounds fair to me.

Attitudes like that shown in the OP are why communism and socialism isn't far to those who do more than the average.

ThatBloodyWoman · 19/03/2014 08:42

I would like to do voluntary work WooWoo.

But who would look after my dd's ?

I certainly can't afford to pay for childcare to do it!

Goblinchild · 19/03/2014 08:42

If either of my chidren had a minimum wage job, I'd expect them to give it the same effort and committment as a better waged job. In the same way that when DS volunteers, he goes smart, washed and on time and gives them a good day's work.

ShadowOfTheDay · 19/03/2014 08:45

before kids I earned shed loads doing a job that required a lot from me, 24 hour on call worldwide etc.... rose highly promotion wise because there was a promotion path and I was able to put the work in ..... then became a SAHM because my own values changed....

now working in a shop on NMW because it fits with my family life... I will give what I can whilst I am being paid... at the end of my shift I can walk out the door...

managers are brought in from outside - there is NO promotion path, so no matter how long or hard I work, if I stay in this job I will still be paid NMW and still be a shopgirl... so I do not "go the extra mile"...

with NMW the whole job market changed...

WooWooOwl · 19/03/2014 08:46

Their dad looks after my children while I do my voluntary work ThatBloodyWoman, but all the voluntary work I have ever done, for a variety of charities has cost me money somehow. Even if it's just travel expenses, but usually there's more than that.

But it's work that is high value and is very rewarding, just not financially.

There is a huge amount of work that is essential to society that will never be paid even at minimum wage. Which is one of the reasons why I think the entitled attitude of the OP is so disgusting.

FiloPasty · 19/03/2014 08:50

I think if you want to succeed in life you make it happen, no one is going to do it for you. You find the opportunity.
I now live 5 hours away from where I grew up, a sacrifice in some ways but my children will have so many more opportunities than I did (working class family, my dad on/off benefits his whole life)
I think it was Jamie Oliver who got slated in the press for saying how British youngsters aren't prepared to work hard, often call in sick etc. I agree with him, I would often have parents phoning in sick for their children (early 20's) they just weren't reliable on the most part. The foreign staff just had a much better work ethic and desire to progress. Lots of people think it should be handed on a plate.

ThatBloodyWoman · 19/03/2014 08:50

I think it's worth pointing out that no one really gets away with doing sweet FA for long.

Even in a minimum wage job, you would still be weeded out if you don't meet expectations.

It's a dog eat dog world and you cannot just cruise along pisstaking, so employers will be getting the job description fulfilled, or will be getting rid.

But why the fuck should a minimum wage emplyee with no hope of furtherance go the extra mile, and stay late or miss tea breaks, or put an extra gleam on the toilet bowl they've just cleaned? Just why?

Better off saving your energy for when you get home because there hasn't been a cleaner in cleaning your house when you've been out.......

ThatBloodyWoman · 19/03/2014 08:53

WooWoo I commend that.

But our work patterns and lack of transport do not allow.
One car family. Rural.Public transport costs a bomb.
All stacked against it sadly.

WilsonFrickett · 19/03/2014 08:53

I am old enough to remember when there wasn't a NMW. In my first job I earned £1 ph, plus tips. I agree that it isn't working as well as it could and that a lot of the structures around it, like housing costs, need to be massively addressed, but I think people are forgetting it's a valuable safety net which has lifted a lot of people out of poverty.

Should it be higher? Yes, and WTC should be cut and housing costs should be lower, but let's not forget when it came in it was a truly wonderful thing, especially for young people. The apprentices people talk of would have been on £40 per week under YTS (iirc. It was a long time ago)

Sallystyle · 19/03/2014 08:57

I earn just above it. Which is awful considering I am responsible for adults with severe LD, dementia and health conditions. I now do a lot of personal care as most of them are bed bound as well.

I can't have the OP's attitude as the people I care for would suffer and it isn't their fault the pay is so crap.

It fucks me off that we are paid so little and there are options of working your way up but to get a senior position is a lot more work with something silly like an extra £1 an hour pay rise.

I love my job though and work hard to make a difference to the people I care for.

I could get a job in Asda with a lot less responsibility, better hours and get paid the same. We are responsible for peoples lives (a lot of illnesses etc that could be deadly if we don't act quickly) but we are not valued enough for it.

monicalewinski · 19/03/2014 09:02

You put in the extra effort so that you get a good reference when you move on, or so that you stand out from your peers when there is a chance of promotion.

If you were a line manager, who would you recommend for advancement? The person who does the bare minimum or the person who displays the extra capacity by going that extra bit more than is specified?

I started out on entry level jobs - I was a cleaner in various places, a waitress, a barmaid, a cook, a shop assistant and so on; each was a stepping stone to another job - my cleaning job paid for my petrol money to get to another job and so on. I went to where the work was and moved on from each job with a good reference and always the sentiment that there would be a job for me in the future if I needed one.

I appreciate that it is not that simple anymore, but imo the person with the 'bare minimum' attitude is not the one that I will recommend for advancement when I write their annual appraisal - it will be the person that appears to be capable of more.