to not understand capitalism

[IceBeing]

Some people work hard (say 60 hours a week all year) and get paid about £20000 a year...and some people work hard and get paid 10 or even 100 times as much a year.

How can 60 hours a week of work from 1 person be worth 100 times as much as 60 hours a week of work from another person?

In fact that is were the american dream and I really part company....not everyone can achieve everything they set their heart on.

Determination to succeed isn't all you need.

All the effort and training in the world will not, for instance, make me an olympic high jump finalist.

There are many people with sufficient drive, determination and everything else required to succeed who are completely prevented from doing so by accident of birth.

I am happy for you reg that you had the resources, physical and mental, to succeed despite the disadvantages of your childhood.

To suggest that everyone else who has not been able to do so simply wasn't trying hard enough is, tbh, fucking disgusting.

Ice And you know no one who has done it, which must mean no one can.

You must logically know that I'm not referring to those who who cannot, due to any mental or physical disabilities, work. Of course I think that those less-able should be taken care of. Again, as I addressed above if you would pay attention, I think that is something that is done well, to the point of abuse, in this country, and something that is done poorly, to the point of neglect, in the States.

I'm referring to those of able mind and body who are sat on their arse moaning about other people having all the luck. If you actually think I'm suggesting (or that anyone else would suggest) that someone with the reading age of a 7-year old could be CEO of a company if they just wanted it bad enough, then I don't know why I've wasted my time on this conversation for as long as I have, because you're quite clearly an idiot.

So what are you saying should happen then? That those who are capable of achieving shouldn't be allowed to because not everyone can?

LaQueen Mind reading. Yet another gift that I have that no one else in the world does.

Statistically brought up a good point actually. Ice, if those who are able aren't allowed to earn mega-bucks and pay mega-taxes, how do you think the government will provide for those who aren't able?!

Oh yes, the magic microwave. I'd forgotten about that.

ha - I own my own house outright and got paid the whole time I was on here...yet another capitalism fail....totally lazy, under motivated and succeeding entirely at random because my genetics included some abilities that few have....

The government would have MORE money to spend on the less able - those not able to pull themselves out of poverty if they taxed those who can more substantially....

Well done, Ice. You've managed to take a paying job from someone else who probably deserves it more (based on your attitude on here), thereby creating even more of a strain on the government, ensuring that there are shortcomings when it comes to helping those less-fortunate, meanwhile calling for those of us who earn more than you to make up the deficit that you yourself are causing.

[slow clap]

Yep, you're a real genius.

so reg you seem to think the majority of people can pull themselves out of poverty and don't need looking after...I think the majority can't.

We both admit that some can, and that some can't so we are not so very far apart.

For what it is worth I never said that nobody could pull themselves out of poverty, while you actually did say that 'If I can then everyone can' - so I am not sure how I am supposed to interpret that as meaning that you understand perfectly well that many people can't.

So could you have done what you did with your live if you had had say 30 IQ points less? That wouldn't have been enough to classify you as having a disability, but could you still have gotten your degree?

hey, I do a job that needs doing that not very many people can do...I am just saying that motivation and determination have not been a big part in me getting or doing the job...

There are plenty of people out there who would love to do this job and all the motivation and determination in the world will not make them capable of doing it as well as I do with very little.

I don't know why any of that should mean that I get 10 times their salary.

oh sorry queen and reg I only just realised that you aren't interested in debate! I will leave you to your straw man destroying love in.

I'll check back later to see if you (or more likely someone else) has anything interesting to say....

It's a saying, FFS. "If I can do it, anyone can do it!"

When it's said, it doesn't actually mean that the person speaking believes that every person on the earth at that very moment, regardless of age, sex, ability, etc., can literally do exactly what that person is doing.

(I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this!)

And yes, I reckon I could spare 30 IQ points and still be in the same position I'm in now.

statistically no I am not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to succeed because not everyone can - I am saying that getting paid 10 times as much because you can is about the limit that is necessary to motivate people to try....

We don't need factors of 100 to a 1000 difference in salaries as a function of the hand people are dealt at birth...10 would be fine and do an awful lot to reduce the inequalities in society.

reg really? what sort of degree was it? I definitely couldn't be in the job I am in with 30 less IQ points..I wouldn't even have made it through the first or second stages of my career let alone what I am currently doing....

And I don't think I could run a business...I don't have even slightly the right mental set up.

"A job not many people can do..." and yet you are "totally lazy, under motivated, and succeeding entirely at random".

Yep, I bet you're a real gem of an employee. And I'm sorry that you don't find my posts interesting enough to distract you from your super-important job.

laQueen and I am willing to bet you don't work as a model or a footballer....

Its not super important...it just needs doing....

so what massively important self-spotted role did you find for yourself in the world reg

maybe designing a more attractive packaging for mobile phone sanitising products?

reg in case it totally escaped you this is the point of what I have been saying.

Capitalism if stupid because it pays me 10 times more to do something in a half assed way then it pays the cleaners who actually work hard and do the job properly.

I am such a 'gem of an employee' that I will be getting a bonus...and a pay rise next year! GO CAPITALISM!

Ice I think you'd struggle to do anything with 30 less IQ points... You don't seem have a lot to spare.

laqueen yes - the world is probably quite short on multi-millionaire self made socialists....