to not understand capitalism

[IceBeing]

Some people work hard (say 60 hours a week all year) and get paid about £20000 a year...and some people work hard and get paid 10 or even 100 times as much a year.

How can 60 hours a week of work from 1 person be worth 100 times as much as 60 hours a week of work from another person?

It's not any show kim, I've got nothing to do with Cote. I'm just trying to point out that you're trying to argue on a thread which you can't be bothered to educate yourself about, and you're arguing in the face of people presenting with you with facts, and then you're demanding even more.

People would be a lot more receptive if you bothered to try to learn yourself, and then asked for clarification, but instead, you've gone, "I can't be arsed to look it up for myself, so instead, you do it, and tell me what it says."

The only people who seem to be aggressive in their posts?! Clearly you've completely skimmed over the OP's posts!

You haven't made any points about capitalism... You've made points about how the poor aren't taken care of well enough, and that all banks and bankers are bastards. You seem quite happy to bash our current system, but then say, "But I don't really know how to fix it, so what do you think we should do?"

It reminds me a bit of people who don't follow sports... They hear some commentary on telly about it, and then parrot it in the office the next day, hoping it will make them part of the conversation, without realising that it's painfully obvious to everyone else who does know about it, that the person actually knows nothing at all.

If you're building robots and teaching computer programming, you obviously are smart, so why the refusal to learn more about, not only capitalism, but about the monetary systems of the world?

I'm not actually a bitch in real life (well, at least not as much as I come across on this thread anyway) but it just irritates me to no end to see someone who has a brain and who has resources available to them refuse to use them. (I'm talking about you not researching things, but also, about the people I mentioned up-thread, who don't do things themselves and then moan about the world being against them.) so I do come across if I'm coming across aggressive to you (the OP, that's a different story) because you do seem to genuinely want to be involved in a discussion about this topic... But if that's the case, then why the refusal to look beyond Mumsnet for your information?!!?

*do apologise if I'm coming across

You've made points about how the poor aren't taken care of well enough, and that all banks and bankers are bastards. You seem quite happy to bash our current system, but then say, "But I don't really know how to fix it, so what do you think we should do?"

I don't think you read Kim's post on page 1. She seems to be being bashed both as a capitalist and a naive hippy!

Although she does seem to have a procrastinating on mumsnet problem, but then so do I!

You say that, but you seem to have all the time in the world to post on here!!

ARGH!

If only somebody would recognise my value on MN and pay me per post.

Wasn't it Captain Picard in Star Trek who when asked by someone from earth what he earned (in that episode when they travelled back in time to the earth's first contact with aliens) said "wealth is no longer the driving force; we work to better humanity." That's what I hope for the future.

Gosh what an interesting thread. Cote you have educated me and for that i thank you .

Soros only made money on Black Wednesday because the UK govt was trying to manipulate the value of sterling. Sterling was worth less than the 'fixed' exchange rates the govt were using to keep in the ERM. Soros and other business men just kept selling sterling and the govt kept buying at the higher price.
Eventually the govt gave up buing, the value fell to its real value. The UK became much more competetive and growth grew stronger - so all good really for UK.

You are very welcome, London. I'm glad to have helped.

OP - I'm a CEO, running an organisation of many 100s of people, working in an industry sector in which the UK excels. I spend a HUGE amount of time in continuous professional development, since my industry sector is technology dependent and winging it isn't an option. I've invested 1000s and 1000s of pound of my own money in acquiring new skills and competencies. If I get a decision wrong and cost the company a lot of money, not only do I risk a significant portion of my own salary (bonus), but I potentially put a lot of people out of work. I regularly get up at 5am to start work. I regularly work until gone midnight. I sometimes have to work on holiday (the IT team here are expert now at removing sand from my laptop). I often take work home at the weekend, and do it once everyone else has gone to bed. I travel for up to 20 weeks a year, often far enough away from home that speaking on the phone to my DD is challenging (but I kick myself out of bed at 3am to make sure she never goes a day without speaking to me). I've moved country several times, dragging my family with me, changing my DDs school, in order to achieve career growth.

Would I do that for 20k a year? Would anyone?

theboss I don't know, would you do it for 20K a year? I wouldn't personally do that for 20 million a year. In fact I wouldn't do it for one week for 20 million.

This suggests to me that some people want to work like that and others want different things to be the most important thing in their life.

It suggests that you would be quite likely to do it anyway regardless of the salary - because no salary is worth doing something you don't want to do as obsessively as that!

Or to put it more plainly, some people are obsessive work-aholics. I don't think they are in it for the money...I think they would do it anyway, even in a communist state.

Some people clearly are in it for the money....but I personally wouldn't want to employ someone motivated purely by money.

Some people are just chugging along doing what is necessary to support their families.

I am sure the ability to get by on 4 hours sleep and work every waking moment is valuable to society - but I think there are other equally valuable ways to contribute.

I mean I helped set up and run a badminton club...we aren't going for world domination, or expansion, or franchising....we just wanted to encourage some people who might otherwise not do any exercise to get involved. I couldn't have done that if I was as obsessed with my work as some are (in fact most in my field are pretty obsessive) but I like to think I still contribute to society, in spite of my lack of obsession.

Of course I wouldn't do it for 20k, there are much easier ways to earn 20k. Real world - I work in an industry that is young. You either move up, or you lose your job. I'm one of very few people my age still working in this industry - it's tech driven, so the younger you are, the more you have value for "craft skills". So if you want to keep earning as you get older, you have to acquire management skills.

As to why I do it, family redundancy whilst on ML forced my hand. Up until then, I was a bit less ambitious. And then I realised that in order to feed my family, we were not in a position for me not to work, or to work in a half hearted way.

And I never suggested on this thread that my job was more valuable to society than others - it's just more valuable to the shareholders of the company than others. They pay my salary.

I also spent the afternoon (not in the UK right now) working on a project that will help millions of the worlds poorest people access the internet. As part of my package, I negotiated a minimum period of time for me to spend on pro bono work that gives back to society in some way.

And I'm a bloody good mother - my DD is happy, secure, and confident in my love. I had her late in life, and my earnings level means I should be able to retire early - so will have lots of time to spend with her. She travels with me a lot as well - so has seen so much of the world.

It's not everyone's choice, hence why companies will pay lots of money to people who are willing to do this and have the skills to deliver. Doesn't make it a wrong choice, though, just one that's different from yours.

Oh, and I do enjoy my job very much, but, if I saw my 20 year old self in the street, I would tell her to choose a different career where the "up or out" ethos is a bit less prevalent. No idea what careers those might be, but by the time I realised it might be an issue, I was already in my mid30s and the UK was in the grip of recession, so not the best time to bail on an established career to do something different, starting again from zero.

I'd also tell her to find a decent hairdresser and stop wearing so much make up. But that's an entirely different thread!