If you expect your c hild to be respectful of other children, why don't you expect them to be respectful towards their siblings?

[DiddlePlays]

That's it really.
I have seen too many cases where because 2 children are siblings, it seems to be OK for them to:

• snatch and grab
• insult the other child
• take no notice of their sibling (eg help themselves to all the food wo asking first, take all the space on the sofa and refuse to move etc...)
• push them to get in front
• sometimes even push and hit (and bite) was seen as acceptable too.

Now I get that siblings do know how to push each others buttons but why on earth it is OK not to expect the same respect towards their sibling than towards any other child?? None of these behaviours would ever be acceptable in any other setting. But because they are siblings apparently its' normal and acceptable :(:(

I agree. We don't allow name-calling of anyone in our house, nor do we condone pushing and shoving (it does happen but they get told off). We praise kindness towards each other. Our 3 DC all play together really well and are very nice together. I think we are lucky in that they have compatible personalities, but I do think that 'training' them to behave well to each other is part of it too.

I did / do expect my children to be respectful of their sibling.

it's not normal. it's vile. we brought ours up to be family first so they stick up for each other in public. of course they have the odd spat but are very close. after all once you are gone they need each other even more.

fighting, snatching and hitting are wierd behaviours and a total no no in our house to anyone.

driven yes agree training needed too.

I have 3 DDs now in their 20s. They did scrabble and fight with each other when they were younger as that what tends to happen when you live together. However we always tried to pull them up on it although sometimes left them to sort it out themselves as it was often finished more quickly that way. They always stood up for each other if someone from outside the family insulted or argued with them. So I actually think most children are taught to respect their siblings.

The things my dcs are coming back with after spending some time at friends are eye watering. And what I have seen myself too.

I remember a mum telling me that she wasn't going to intervene when her twins were 'fighting' as they would only learn to come to her to solve arguments. So she left them to it. They were 2yo at the time. One was hitting, the other biting. They had bruises on their arms from the fight but she reused 'to get involved in their squabbles'.

Another was leaving her dd screaming at her brother, shouting insults etc... because he had a friend over and she hadn't.

I really can't understand how you can expect 4, 5, 10yo to solve problems wo teaching them how to do it first when as adults, a lot of people are clearly unable to do it. ie being able to find a compromise, looking for a win-win solution, respecting the other person choices/tastes etc...

Leaving young children 'sort it out on their own' quite often means that the 'strongest wins'.

And YY about training/teaching.
As a rule though, if I can hear shouting and screaming, then they clearly aren't able to do that and need some intervention (which incidentally NEVER means me taking sides and deciding for them!)

siblings will fight that is normal especially as they grow up doesnt mean it is acceptable it can be a hard slog ime but it works out in the end I know twins who hate each other their mother has always allowed them to bicker and fight they now resort to calling each other fucking slags

Mine certainly fight and squabble and can be extremely rude to each other but I always tell them it is unacceptable to behave like that and they should respect each other and mainly they do.

It is hard and on going but I hope it rubs off eventually.

you are right sootia it is an ongoing slog and I dont think you can always micro manage siblings it would be exhausting I do think children need to learn resolution and problem solving i couldnt be bothered getting into the Middle of MUM SHE DID THAT MUM TELL HER it is exhausting

we get all that behaviour from one child to the other. does not make it right and it is dealt with. it is a long slow process.

I do think children need to learn resolution and problem solving
YY. My issue is how on earth are they going to learn if no one is showing them/teaching them.

it can be a hard slog ime
Oh YY to that too. But does it mean you should just give up?

mrsjay in the case of the twins I was talking about, you now have a very clear pecking order in the family (4 dcs). The youngest is the one who spends his time crying and whinging because well... that's the only way he can get sometimes a little bit of what he wants.
from the outside it probably looks as if things are running smoothly but as soon as you scratch the surface, it tells a very different story. :(

I can see how in 10~15years time, when they will all have left home, that they might not be the best friends ever....

Ah, but I have given up on expectations you see.

I can remonstrate punish cajole bribe threaten sanction until the cows come home, but all I expect is that parents will approach to complain about DS's behaviour. Then he's horrible to siblings but next minute they are laughing together & the sibling is just as complicit in horribleness as the first one, give as good as they get, so do I punish sanction cajole bribe threaten them both for every small violation when it's obviously how they both choose to play.

I could give them up to foster care. Then I wouldn't be responsible any more. It's a thought. Especially if they were separated this nonsense just wouldn't happen any more. Until then, I'll have to muddle thru.

As a small child DH used to deliberately provoke his big brother until big brother would thump DH; parent would rush in to punish big brother. DH relished in this game. Him & brother are on quite close & loving terms as adults.

I am desperate to solve the sibling conflict we have, do any of you have any advice. I am at my wits end

Sherbert is there a particular reason why or is it just a pattern they have fallen into?

ages are significant too as puberty is tricky for all kids and they get moody and short tempered.

we did family time, so once a week or 2weeks we had a DVD, takeaway, everyone expected to attend and all choose the date.

that worked well for us in the teen years as it's just family and you can chat.

if younger try using the puppet. ie you have a soft toy that 'talks' this toy has license to tell each child how it is and where they are being mean/wrong/silly but in a funny way. toy also praises and teases.

kids can the 'tell' the toy how they feel in a positive way.

it can work well. sounds daft but worth a go with under 10s.

I think there is a balance to be had. Unfairness, hitting, pushing - yes we step in. These are skills and attributes we need to teach our DCs. Whinging, whining, squabbling over toys....they need to learn how to problem solve/negotiate/share. We leave them to it. But they know if it escalates we will step in. If you get involved in every little squabble then how will they cope at school with who had which book first?

However the "leaving them to it" only started when we knew they were old enough to understand...that the "biggest" was not always going to win.

It is like most parenting issues - one of balance. Or should that be one of juggling .

Holiday not sure I follow you there.

I am not holier than thou. My dcs do squabbles, they also do play fight (well up to a point) and I leave them to sort out their arguments. But I will NOT accept behaviours than I wouldn't accept from them if this was one of the dc and their friends.

It's not the fact that they are fighting sometimes. They will do and that's healthy. But I don't really see why you can accept that let's say dc1 is pushing dc2 when if it was dc1 pushing a friend you wouldn't accept it.

And YY to one child winding the other one up until their sibling snaps. Not unheard of in that house either. But dealt with in a completely different way.

Sherberts one of the best book is this one. Plus a few books on conflict resolution (which they allude to anyway)

I tell my 3 off for hitting and biting is a define no - snatching they tend to police as well as sofa hogging - or they come to me or DH to arbitrate.

I wouldn't say my youngest was the one who always come of worst - she is very determined and more than capable of sticking up for herself. Though we have only stepped back when she got to an age when this was obvious.

I have 3 DC and they are very capable of forming alliances - and taking each other to task and deciding on what is fair.

I know as one of 3 DC myself I often resented my parents wading in when we were sorting something out - I'm not the oldest - and my 3 DC can be the same.

I also don't watch them 24/7 - and what I do catch I am aware isn't always everything that has gone on before.

They know they are not suppose to hit or hurt each other doesn't mean it doesn't happen or that when it does it was always intentional. It's also not unknown for subtle winding up to occur to get a reaction.

Insulting each other - well we do put a stop to it if if goes on to long or one DC is obviously getting upset - otherwise a mild that's not nice might be all that is done which may not stop it.

They are very close and very protective of each other at the moment.

It a balance between Lord of the Flies and micromanagement of them. I hope they are learning what respect is rather than just being told.

I do expect them to be respectful towards each other, and none of the things you mention are acceptable in our house.

Having said that, there are some days when I would have to spend the entire time refereeing and not get anything else done. On those days, eventually I will snap, shut the door, and tell them to sort it out between themselves.

But I will NOT accept behaviours than I wouldn't accept from them if this was one of the dc and their friends.

Other parents - they view things differently - what I view as acceptable mild teasing they can view as bullying and vice versa - so I expect the DC to be on best behavior round other DC.

My DC are allowed more leeway in their own home with their own siblings and are allowed to be more relaxed - but there are still rules and we are still round to enforce them.

DS2 doesn't have friends so no worries about respect inconsistencies there.

Do you actually know people who really never try to teach their kids to resolve conflict with each other, but then do step in quickly to moderate any unpleasantness with all other children?

I know some people are very insecure about public behaviour, so their DC being horrid to each other they can ignore but they are deathly embarrassed about public displays of bad behaviour and crack down on this heavily. At least I take it to be a kind of insecurity that causes the inconsistency. It's not having double standards, it's fear that motivates them.