to think this hotel is being greedy?

[mandalaybay]

Ok, I know I am BU. BUT I really need advice and this gets a lot of traffic.

I am sponsoring a training event for a week at a hotel which is providing training on teaching children with autism. When I signed the contract, it was for a minimum chargeable number of 63. The event is split in 2: 2 days and 3 days. Some people come for the 2 day, some come for the 3. I have 68 people registered for the 2 day but only 49 for the 3 day.

I told this to the hotel 2 weeks ago, when numbers were still unconfirmed. I didn't get a response. Today, they have called to notify me they are charging my card in full for the event, and when I asked them to break it down, they are charging me for the 63 for the 3 day event (£1650), even though I only have 48.

Now, I understand that the minimum promised number was 63, however I hosted an event and used this same venue in October and brought them £12.5k. Not to mention the hotel rooms people booked and how busy their restaurant was as a result. This time I have paid £1400 in hotel rooms just for people I am bringing, and I know several more have also booked and paid for their own. So a TON of revenue for them. I asked them to please please charge me for the numbers I have as this is NOT a money making event (for me)...it really isn't, and I don't have the extra money to pay them. They said no. I then told them the type of event this is but I have a feeling the person I was speaking to can't make these decisions because she said to come in to the office Monday to speak to them and for now she will just charge for the numbers I have.

PLEASE help me negotiate this with them. I really don't have the money to pay them. How can I get them to either a) let me off or b) negotiate it down. Ideas I have are: 1) I will sign another contract to host another event there within the next 6 months (promising them about £7000), 2) meet me half way: I am over numbers on one event, but lower on another?

Has anyone ever been in this situation or work in an area where a customer is?

OP am I right in thinking that next week you have a 3 day course followed by a 2 day course (or vice versa)?

Are you trying to get some of the 2 day attendees to do both courses? I think that might be difficult to attract numbers due to the big increase in accommodation costs for them. If you just want them to transfer to the 3 day course won't that leave you under your numbers for the 2 day course?

For those saying you've signed a contract so your stuffed - this is wrong. A judge will look at whether the contract is balanced and fair so sometimes a signed contract means nothing at all.

I cannot imagine they will take you to court if you don't pay the extra. They are unable to charge the catering elements of the day del rate, it costs them money with lawyers, it takes up time and energy and quite rightly could generate them bad P.R.

Over in legal a contract lawyer may be able to help you better? I am speaking from 14 years experience though and I simply cannot imagine a venue pursuing the cancellation charge element of the bill.

OP you agreed to bring them 63 delegates at 50 per day and are now trying to get them to accept a loss of 2000? (8x50x5). With the course next week they are very unlikely to find an alternative booking to make good that money and will probably have already incurred costs on your behalf.

It's a hard lesson to learn. You may find that they are reluctant to accept future bookings from you for their larger rooms and perhaps that's not a bad thing.

Tea, that money would be easily made up in food and drink orders from people staying with them.

I average 56 over the week. Maybe I can get them to agree to pay for 7 instead? No idea how I'll pay that! My last minute deal has had one positive response so far! Luckily there are schools attending who are London based and they may very well agree to some people attending both courses. The content of the second course is more advanced than the first, so a good immediate follow on.

At the end of the day this isn't a business trying to get money to arrange a course. It's about teaching people who teach children with autism HOW to teach.

OP you may be a not-for-profit organisation but the hotel isn't. It's not reasonable to expect them to pick up the tab everytime a customer gets over optimistic about potential demand for their event, no matter how noble the aims of the event are.

You could try to get them to write it off as sponsoring your event in return for publicising them in all your future publicity but I suspect that might be regarded as setting a dangerous precedent.

Are you publicising the event?
Could you negotiate a discount in return for some press and PR for them?

Not quite sure who is making up the 2k. The hotel will probably be expecting the delegates who are coming to spend a certain amount, especially if this is what usually happens. Other guests spending will also be factored in already. Are you expecting your delegates to spend an additional 2k on top of what would normally be spent to make up the shortfall?

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to help you have a clear and logical argument for your negotiations.

I am advertising the event but not bigging up the hotel. As I said though, it's the same venue I used in October when I brought them 20 extra delegates. The course I am short for I haven't run before, so I won't run it again. I am oversold on the same course I ran in oct so it's safe to say that that one is a hit and I do plan on doing it again within the next 6 months. It's good for the hotel that we have used them twice so far, and would plan to continue that. And my track record with them is hardly flawed.

WRT people spending on food and drink, some people are staying 5 nights and they aren't a cheap hotel, so yes, I see that £2000 will be reached if not over!

I agree with redfocus. Some people do so love to pile in and they don't let a little thing like not knowing what they're talking about stop them.

It's particularly ugly when the OP is clearly frantic for help.

OP you've had good advice from people who actually work in the industry that seems quite hopeful. Especially from firstpost.

So I'd go with what she said and also her suggestion to also ask in Legal. Bear in mind that it attracts some people whose only qualification is a self-righteous attitude and an addiction to Kavanagh QC.

Good luck.

The guests who are staying can't be part of your calculations unless they are going to spend more more in the hotel than the average guest. The hotel will have calculated what the average spend for each person staying is. If they only spend the average the hotel won't make up the 2k.

Are you putting on activity in the hotel in the evenings? What is stopping them from going to eat/drink in other restaurants/hotels? Will they all chill out together in discussion groups in the hotel bar or are they likely to go out or get an early night?

Mymiracle is just trying to point out that the hotel won't care about the fact that op doesn't have the money. She seems to think that if they don't compromise then she can just tell then that she doesn't have the money and that's that. Surely if the op is breaking a contract agreement it's likely that they will take it further to get their money? Court etc?

People seem to be missing the point that mymiracle is trying to make. It's not as simple as saying 'well I have no money so tough'

Because there's a lot of networking, I should think people will gather in the bar pretty much every night. They did last time. According to the hotel, only one person booked a room at the special rate, however I know for a fact several people went through booking.com to get a cheaper room. The hotel is not close to any other bars or restaurants (closest 10min walk), so there isn't a whole lot of choice in the vicinity. That obviously goes in the hotels favour. And I'm willing to negotiate. If they aren't prepared to take the £2000 hit (which I argue it's not really a hit because they have already made money out of this), I am willing to make that less of a hit for them and less of a hit for me. Praying for more last minute registrations!!!

But that £2000 won't be covered by good and accommodation because they would have spent that anyway, whether you met the minimum numbers or not.

If you're not having anything in the evenings I would come up with something. Perhaps flagged as networking or a debate on something relevant or even a quiz so that you can demonstrate to the hotel that you are finding ways to increase guest spend. You need to get the timings right so people stay together rather than wandering off. Ask the hotel if the restaurant is quiet at a particular time so that your guests eat then. Anything to show you are thinking of things from their perspective.

Why do you think the hotel should take any sort of hit financially on your conference? Seems very entitled.

Could you ask them to add the £2k onto your next event and up the cost of the next event per person to cover the shortfall?

Thank you mrsmarvel!!

And for the record I have worked in the industry so I do know what I am talking about

Just wanted to add, they should not charge your credit card without your say so. Say the amount xxx is in dispute but you are happy to pay xxx.

If they won't refund

mandalay you keep going on about the fact that your shortfall will be made up by what your guests will spend.

The hotel will have this factored into their budget of what they charge for conferences and rooms already - the rate will be set at a certain point with the assumption that there will be £xx spend per guest per night.
So you are in fact losing them the £2k PLUS money that the people you are short by won't be spending because they won't be there. So I think you will find you get short shrift from them if you try and pursue this avenue.

As I said right at the start of the thread, your best bet is to point to your previous successful event, say you are planning another one and that if they can accommodate you on this week then you will bring that other event to them again later in the year. Otherwise you will take your business elsewhere.

But you really do need to be thinking about a way to raise the money to pay them. You will have to get a load or apply for a credit card or get an overdraft.

DH suggests u threaten to pull ur booking! He says it is really poor form If they don't let u off with the lesser number on the third day! He says u are probably dealing with an admin person who is afraid to authorise the discount. Speak to the events manager and if he is useless or there isn't one ask to speak to the general manager. Don't worry. He said they come across this all the time. They will contract u to minimum numbers but generally allow for that to "wash" down to a lesser total. Stand your ground and don't let them
Bully you.

When I signed the contract, it was for a minimum chargeable number of 63

And you have 68 on the second day and are not being charged extra?

I don't think the hotel is being unreasonable. Its not up to them to adjust their business dependent on your business ie how many bookings you get.

I get this with holiday lets sometimes. "Can you quote us for 8 people but it may be up to 16 for a week at the end of June but it may be mid July instead?" And all I do is give them the standard rate, which doesn't vary even if they do only have 8 people.

I'm guessing with this hotel there comes a point where its not viable to provide the service at all. Perhaps the quote they gave was quite near that line already. Surely its up to you to negotiate a discount at the outset if you don't get above a certain number?

And, offer in writing that they can move you to a conference room more suitable to your lower numbers on the last day.

Definitely do not get loan / agree to pay. So much of this is about who blinks first.

Thanks Onsie. They have taken payment for the booking (numbers I have) and the event is next week. What they don't have from me is the shortfall. This is what I need to negotiate with them. I find it extremely hard to believe that they are losing money here. I will need to negotiate with them (I think I've said this about 1000x) until we are both happy. I'm not going to insist that they take the hit, I am very open to talks. I don't plan to be nasty or "entitled" when I do speak to them, I am a good repeat customer who is in a bit of a mess and asking for help. I did tell them these numbers 2 weeks ago and again this week and they NEVER indicated to me that this would be a problem. Had they done so then I would have had more than 3 days to come up with 13 people and £2000!

I would be more than willing to host events in the bar to bring in extra revenue, I am happy to carry over the debt to the next event, and I am happy to promise to host an event within 6 months. Surely these things show that I do not think I am "entitled" and am more than willing to work this out?!?

Yes lessmiss I have paid them for the 5 extra people attending the first 2 days.

Thanks first post. It's the last 3 days I am down in but would be happy for them to move us if need be. I cant get a loan or overdraft or any other form of finance so will definitely not be offering to do so.