to think this hotel is being greedy?

[mandalaybay]

Ok, I know I am BU. BUT I really need advice and this gets a lot of traffic.

I am sponsoring a training event for a week at a hotel which is providing training on teaching children with autism. When I signed the contract, it was for a minimum chargeable number of 63. The event is split in 2: 2 days and 3 days. Some people come for the 2 day, some come for the 3. I have 68 people registered for the 2 day but only 49 for the 3 day.

I told this to the hotel 2 weeks ago, when numbers were still unconfirmed. I didn't get a response. Today, they have called to notify me they are charging my card in full for the event, and when I asked them to break it down, they are charging me for the 63 for the 3 day event (£1650), even though I only have 48.

Now, I understand that the minimum promised number was 63, however I hosted an event and used this same venue in October and brought them £12.5k. Not to mention the hotel rooms people booked and how busy their restaurant was as a result. This time I have paid £1400 in hotel rooms just for people I am bringing, and I know several more have also booked and paid for their own. So a TON of revenue for them. I asked them to please please charge me for the numbers I have as this is NOT a money making event (for me)...it really isn't, and I don't have the extra money to pay them. They said no. I then told them the type of event this is but I have a feeling the person I was speaking to can't make these decisions because she said to come in to the office Monday to speak to them and for now she will just charge for the numbers I have.

PLEASE help me negotiate this with them. I really don't have the money to pay them. How can I get them to either a) let me off or b) negotiate it down. Ideas I have are: 1) I will sign another contract to host another event there within the next 6 months (promising them about £7000), 2) meet me half way: I am over numbers on one event, but lower on another?

Has anyone ever been in this situation or work in an area where a customer is?

[WestmorlandSausage]

what options have you got for trying to get another 14 people to the event you are short for?

How far away from now is the event happening?

[mandalaybay]

Its next week. I have emailed them all and offered about half price to come to the second event. Out of 68 people I need 13. So hopefully it works!!

[mymiraclebubba]

mandalay sarcasm when you are in the wrong is probably not your best weapon.

legally you don't have a leg to stand on and you need to be prepared for that! You signed a contract which means you are legally bound to pay the hotel irrespective of whether you have enough people to cover costs.

You can try to negotiate based on your previous/future business however they are well within their rights to tell you to get stuffed. You can hope all you want but you need to be prepared for them to say tough luck and you seem to be ignoring this fact!

[mandalaybay]

Im not ignoring this fact! I am trying to get more people to book, which is about all I can do. Money doesn't grow on trees and I DONT HAVE ANY. So I kind of have to TRY and negotiate this rather than "accept" it and not try.

[mymiraclebubba]

But you not having the money to pay is not anyone's fault except yours!! Why should the hotel give you a discount just because you screwed up your budget and finances?

I sympathise to an extent but I think you are trying to blame the wrong people. You are calling the hotel greedy - they are just holding young your contractual obligations that you signed for. You don't have enough people on the course to cover costs and are trying to make that the hotels problem by claiming you have no money to pay. Again that isn't their issue it is yours.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

Okay, here is an idea (not necessarily a brilliant one, but it's a start!).

I would suggest that you check out the prices of:

1. A conference room with wifi, and morning coffee/lunch/afternoon tea for 65 people at (say) 3 other comparable hotels in the area of the one you have booked.
   
2. A conference room with wifi, and morning coffee/lunch/afternoon tea for 65 people at 3 other hotels of the same chain as the one you have booked.
   
3. The cost of other events at the hotel you have booked, for example what would they charge for a daytime wedding party with lunch for 65 people.
   
   Pray that most of these figures are lower that the price you have already payed! (That is lower than £50 per head).
   
   Make an appointment to see the manager of your venue.
   
   Explain that only 49 people have confirmed booking for the three day event, that you confirmed the number of delegates more than 14 days before the event as per the terms and conditions, yet you were informed on whatever-day that you would be required to pay for 63 people on each of these three days.
   You can add (nicely) that you chose to book them rather than x, y and z hotel in the area, despite their favourable prices, because you have held this event in his/her hotel before (emphasis that), were very happy, and intend to do so again.
   Emphasis that you DID confirm the number of attendees prior to the 14 day deadine.
   Explain to him you are not a business, delegates pay only the hotel charges with no additional fee, and that there are no 'profit-margin to cut.
   Tell him you are now in an impossible situation and ask him/her if they will now go through the figures with you and look to see where (on this occasion) cuts might be made.
   
   It is not in their interest to have to sue you for the balance (they clearly won't get it). It is in their interest to negotiate (and at those prices all they'd have to do is take the golddust off their lunches), so stop panicking and start planning your strategy.
   
   Good luck and sleep well, mandalaybay!
   
   p.s. you never did say what hugely expensive area this hotel was in.

[ItsAFuckingVase]

Honestly, its far too late in the game to be carrying out price comparisons and bringing this to their attention. Please don't do this, you won't be taken seriously.

Ultimately yes you signed the contract and minimum numbers often aren't fixed across the year or week. However, you have 5 additional delegates on 2 days, and 14 fewer on 1 day, so I would ask that the minimum number is taken as a total across the 3 days which would leave you just 4 short altogether.

Alternatively, you should ask them to remove the charge for any service that they aren't providing - food and beverages, and levy the charge based on just the room hire.

How far off is the event? Is it far enough away that they can amend rotas, haven't ordered food yet etc?

I have worked as a hotel manager for independents and chains and would have agreed to either of these. I think first.option is very reasonable

[ItsAFuckingVase]

However, £50 is about standard day delegate rate for the south, so not sure why people are outraged by it!

I'm in the north and mine was around £40 which would allocate £10 to tea, coffee, cakes etc, £10 lunch, £5 equipment (pads, pens, screen, projector etc) and £15 room hire pp. Not really a colossal amount when it's broken down.

[Princessgenie]

On a slightly different tangent. Are you required to pay in full in advance of the days?
Do you potentially run the risk that they cancel your booking and not return your deposit?
When I have booked conferences/events it has always been non refundable deposit by a specific date and then full payment just before the event. If payment not made then tr hotel cancels. Is there any clause like that in the contract?

[mandalaybay]

The conference is next week. I've paid the total for the numbers I have as that's what they agreed. I need to speak to them in person on Monday about the other amount. I think asking them to take the total over 3 days which still leaves me short is a good compromise to come to. Hopefully people will take advantage of my last minute offer as well so I can get extra numbers.

I have looked and there are several other venues in central London who offer a lower rate for the same thing. I will bring this up to them as "I know there are several other ventures such as X who offer this package at X. We chose you based on your good reputation and service from last time. We plan to continue events such as this one, and people from all over Europe attend, meaning you fill your rooms." Or something along those lines...

[RedFocus]

The op has already said they know they are being unreasonable so why do you all keep on about that?
The op is after advice so that a course which is close to my heart (my daughter is Autistic) can go ahead! We all make mistakes FFS!
I really feel that if you don't have anything useful to say then shut the fuck up because banging on about how the op is being unreasonable and how they 'signed up for those numbers so should suck it up' is incredibly unhelpful.
They know that! They need help here not a telling off! Jeez!

[mymiraclebubba]

Because she is of the opinion the hotel HAVE to give her a discount and actually no they don't and she is failing to acknowledge that.

[mandalaybay]

Thanks red.

And no I don't think they "have" to do anything, but I'm sure as hell not going to try and get this sorted so I actually CAN pay them something. You seem to keep missing that I don't have thousands lying around. They won't get it because I DONT HAVE IT. End of.

[londonrach]

Having never booked anything apart from my wedding no idea re these things but can i ask.....why do you sign a contract with numbers coming....surely its a rough idea and then confirmed nearer the time...(just curious). If it was me id certainly meet the manager to see if something could be done and maybe look around for another hotel next time. Hope it works ok op for you, the hotel and your guests x

[mymiraclebubba]

I am not missing the point of you not having the money, but you seem to ignore the fact that this situation is your own fault and not that of the hotel's. I am not saying don't talk to them but I have said all the way through that you signed a contract and you need to realise that you are in the wrong amd they don't actually have to let you off just because you can't now afford to pay them!


London it is very common for conference venues to state a minimum number, it is usually linked to the discount on the booking they are giving but also makes sure that they are not outbof pocket should they have to turn away other business as they have already got a booking, especially when looking at a 5 day event

[mandalaybay]

They have 4 conference rooms. We are taking 1. The other 3 rooms would not even be able to accommodate the group with less numbers. So they aren't out if pocket, their pocket is lined.

And as I said before, I was under this impression that if I notified them 14 days prior (which I did), it would be ok to have fewer numbers. Not saying it's not my fault because IT CLEARLY IS. The fact remains that it's in both if our best interests to come to a deal on this.

[birdsnotbees]

Miracle - you keep saying the same thing, the op has said she's in the wrong. Leave her alone, you really aren't being helpful.

[MuttonCadet]

I think the fact that the person you've already spoken with has only charged you for the numbers you have confirmed is very positive.

You are in a weak position legally, but if you go in with a compromise in mind I'm sure you'll be able to work something out.

I've found that most people generally try to help if you approach them politely, explain the issue and suggest a solution. Please be ready for the solution to be a reduction in the services you are getting, no tea /coffee etc. the hotel has margins to make and targets to achieve.

[mymiraclebubba]

birds I am entitled to say what I think as are you, but as the op still seems to think the hotel have to give her a discount then she is going to be in for a shock.

If she goes in with the attitude she has on here of "well it's tough cos I don't have the money to pay" then she is going to get no where. Even on her post above yours she is saying it's in their interest to reduce the fee, well no actually it isn't.

[mandalaybay]

I've just looked, they have 12 conference rooms. Max capacity on about 4 of those is 50. So if I go in with say, 55 as a number I'll pay, they will be in a good position still. At least I hope that's what they think!

[Pizdets]

Itsafuckingvase gives really great advice. I've worked with hotels on this basis for years and I've never had one refuse to spread the total bookings differently over a whole event.

Definitely mention future business, also if you're a part of any groups or a larger organisation, talk up the number of events you will 've putting on in the next year as a whole.

Good luck!

[saintlyjimjams]

I think you're reading a different thread mymiracle - her 1st comment was that she knew she was being unreasonable. And it is relevant to a business to know there's no money to be sued for.

OP - I have a severely autistic son - no chance of me attending a conference in London next week but if you PM me some details (& maybe a special late offer for the final day?) I'll share it amongst my networks if you want.?

[addictedtosugar]

This is way out of my experience, but do you average 63 people over each day?
ie if the over subscribed days and under subscribed days are averaged out, do you meet the required numbers? Is there something in that to get the price back to actual numbers?

[Onesieone]

Dh owns hotels hang on I'll ask. Marking my place so I don't loose thread.

[givemeaclue]

Yanbu to negotiate a discount based on lower numbers.

Yabu to call the hotel greedy. You made the booking, they accepted the booking, you agreed terms. I can't see where they are greedy, they will have turned away other business to accommodate you.

Good luck with your event