to think this hotel is being greedy?

[mandalaybay]

Ok, I know I am BU. BUT I really need advice and this gets a lot of traffic.

I am sponsoring a training event for a week at a hotel which is providing training on teaching children with autism. When I signed the contract, it was for a minimum chargeable number of 63. The event is split in 2: 2 days and 3 days. Some people come for the 2 day, some come for the 3. I have 68 people registered for the 2 day but only 49 for the 3 day.

I told this to the hotel 2 weeks ago, when numbers were still unconfirmed. I didn't get a response. Today, they have called to notify me they are charging my card in full for the event, and when I asked them to break it down, they are charging me for the 63 for the 3 day event (£1650), even though I only have 48.

Now, I understand that the minimum promised number was 63, however I hosted an event and used this same venue in October and brought them £12.5k. Not to mention the hotel rooms people booked and how busy their restaurant was as a result. This time I have paid £1400 in hotel rooms just for people I am bringing, and I know several more have also booked and paid for their own. So a TON of revenue for them. I asked them to please please charge me for the numbers I have as this is NOT a money making event (for me)...it really isn't, and I don't have the extra money to pay them. They said no. I then told them the type of event this is but I have a feeling the person I was speaking to can't make these decisions because she said to come in to the office Monday to speak to them and for now she will just charge for the numbers I have.

PLEASE help me negotiate this with them. I really don't have the money to pay them. How can I get them to either a) let me off or b) negotiate it down. Ideas I have are: 1) I will sign another contract to host another event there within the next 6 months (promising them about £7000), 2) meet me half way: I am over numbers on one event, but lower on another?

Has anyone ever been in this situation or work in an area where a customer is?

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

That's good news :) Perhaps raise the PA as a separate issue, especially if it will leave you out of pocket.

[FlashDrive]

Well done, I was really hoping this would work out

[saintlyjimjams]

Well done.

[honestpointofview]

Hi Manda

Very glad it has been worked out. I am not surprised because as you say you are a good customer and coming back.

re the PA system that does seem a lot but even if they are overcharging you I would not raise it. They have been accommodating re costs and if that is price of getting getting out of paying the extra amounts then I think it is a fair price.

[mrscumberbatch]

Good news OP. Glad that their service was up to scratch

[mandalaybay]

It's all fine the lady I spoke to (same as Friday) was very lovely (we chatted about non-business more than business!) and has agreed to only charge me for the numbers I have because I am a good customer and have in turn promised her future business (that I am in the process of organizing now for in October). I do have to pay £750 for the PA system which apparently they rent, but have been told this is chargeable at £250 a day so they are giving it for less. I've agreed although I'm pretty sure that price is way over their normal rate so will be doing some secret enquiring to make sure I'm not being overcharged. All in all it's such a relief! Thanks to those who have offered sound advice and been very helpful

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

Fingers crossed the hotel are prepared to come to a sensible compromise, OP. Let us know how you get on :)

[mandalaybay]

Meeting at 3:30. My numbers over the week average 59, very very close to the contracted number so I'm really hoping we can come to an agreement.

[mandalaybay]

Yes, murdermystery, I won't repeat the one that hasn't been popular or I'll rethink how it's formatted. I will obviously repeat the one that's oversold twice. In any case, there is more business for the hotel if they want it...

[ItsAFuckingVase]

Hotel GMs by and large don't have secretaries. I never did. I did however instruct the receptionist not to put calls through to me from people unknown. They would take a message and I would sift out the shite (you wouldn't believe how many marketing people rang every day) and call back (or have someone else call back) the ones that were important.

OP isn't being unprofessional at all, but this sort of thing happens all the time so the hotel won't be all over it. And as I stated earlier, if OP pits a proposal to negotiate the minimum numbers as a block rather than per day I can't see the hotel refusing it. In fact, if it got as far as court then it would go against the hotel to have refused it.

[Murdermysteryreader]

Are you a charity? You say you are sponsoring the event - the hotel might like some good publicity? Thinking of your next events are they also on this topic because maybe if your numbers are down there isn't really the call for such a big conference and it would be good to widen your topics?

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

We'll of course they aren't concerned - as far as they are concerned they have a contract which will be fulfilled! How you pay them is not their problem.

I have to say that I'm pretty shocked at how unprofessional you are being about this.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

My suggestion was that OP rang and asked for an appointment, ItsAFuckingVase.

I usually find that can be arranged by a secretary.

[ItsAFuckingVase]

Also, laughing at the notion of just ringing and speaking to the GM. It just wouldn't happen. Especially in what I assume is a large chain hotel!!!

[mandalaybay]

I also stressed the importance of this to her on Friday and today in my messages. She knows I'm worried and that I want to meet to discuss it. I've been very clear about that but she obviously doesn't find it as important as I do, just like she didn't argue before taking payment for the numbers I had on Friday. These facts are making me relax a bit.

[mandalaybay]

Who am I supposed to phone exactly? They are all right there in the office, except the manager, who I didn't know until TODAY was the person I was speaking to Friday. She is the one I need to speak to and she isn't there. So I've left a message and email (twice now). What else can I do?

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"Erm, read the thread before posting. They said to me on FRIDAY, that we will speak Monday morning. Said person has not been in the office today"

Erm, I did read the thread, thanks, and I know the person you spoke to on Friday said about speaking on Monday, but I also assumed that you would require to make an appointment to speak to someone 'higher up' as you said "I have a feeling the person I was speaking to can't make these decisions" (or did I not read that).

"the person I spoke to Monday is the events manager"

Erm, again, I did read the thread and that is not what you said earlier, "I am hoping I will speak to someone more senior on Monday, (etc) Today I believe I spoke to just a worker who has no say"

I am still of the opinion that you should telephone and make an appointment.

[mandalaybay]

*friday not Monday

[mandalaybay]

Also the person I spoke to Monday is the events manager. And there are 6 other events happening in this hotel right now. So no wonder she's unavailable.

[mandalaybay]

Erm, read the thread before posting. They said to me on FRIDAY, that we will speak Monday morning. Said person has not been in the office today and I have kind of been tied up seeing to the needs to everyone (70 people plus the speaker), so haven't exactly been available to call and pin someone down. They are aware of the issue, however we have all been busy today. I'm as stressed as I was but really WHAT CAN I DO?? The person hasn't been available and hasn't responded to me and I have several other duties to take care of right now.

[ItsAFuckingVase]

The sales manager and general manager would almost certainly not have been in the office over the weekend, so I really don't see an issue in making contact today rather than Saturday.

Whoever OP spoke to initially would have relayed the information regarding payment to somebody else anyway, and I'm assuming they hold a weekly sales meeting at which it would be discussed, so it should be on their radars.


And regarding appointments - absolute rarity that both sales manager and general manager would have completely full diaries. Sales manager would need to be available to deal with walk in enquiries and gm with ad hoc business.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

Did you manage to meet someone fro the hotel, OP?

[ADishBestEatenCold]

When I first started reading your posts on Friday, I didn't realise you would not have emailed or phoned (to ask for an appointment) until Monday, mandalay!

The Events Manager and/or the Hotel Manager are not necessarily going to have an appointment available at 4 or 5 hours notice.

I must say I'm a bit surprised, given the worry you have faced, that you would not email until today. Hotels don't close over the weekend and, while it might well be that neither the Events Manager nor the Hotel Manager would be available on Saturday or Sunday, it does seem to me that a Monday appointment would have been much more likely if you had asked for it (say) 48+ hours in advance on Saturday morning.

I'm also at a loss to understand why you would email then wait half a day. Why not pick up the phone and ask to make an urgent appointment with either the Hotel Manager or the Events Manager. Then if you'd been told no such appointment was available, you would have been in a position to say that it was a matter of some urgency and so you did need to see one or other today, however you didn't mind when today they managed to slot you in, so if they could please give you an appointment.

I have read this thread with a great deal of sympathy for you and visualised you to be in a very stressful situation, with the hotel appearing to make no effort to 'meet a good customer halfway' but I do find my sympathy waning as I read this sort of thing "So I'm not too concerned as they certainly don't seem to be!"
That attitude is so unbusinesslike it beggars belief! In not meeting with you the hotel weren't showing a lack of concern. You had failed to make a proper appointment, despite having had almost 3 days to do so.

I hope by now you have had your meeting and things have been sorted out. If you haven't then I would suggest you pick up the phone and make an appointment.

[mandalaybay]

Thanks kentish.

I'm here and have been to the office but haven't seen the person I dealt with Friday. I have emailed them and asked for a good time to meet and discuss this. No reply so far (and I sent this morning). So I'm not too concerned as they certainly don't seem to be!

I know what I'm doing regarding how I am running this event and my accountant takes care of reporting to HMRC (I won't owe, I'll lose, especially if I have to pay more).

[kentishgirl]

good luck with your negotiations today, madalaybay. I think you need to follow oneearedrabbit's plan, it's a good, professional approach.

You could also try asking them to view the two bookings as one - with the two bookings you contracted a minimum of 63x2days and 63 x 3 days = total 315 day delegate rates. Ask if you can pay for any shortfall from this total instead.

I'm also a bit worried about how you are structuring what you are doing. It sounds to me as if you are indeed running a business, albeit one not intended to make a profit. If this is not through another business, or a charity (which it can't be, for you to be worried about personally owing them money) what you are doing is running a sole trader business organising seminars. You are offering a service. You are being paid for that service. Your intent or otherwise of making a profit is irrelevant. As far as the law is concerned, it's a business. You should be declaring this to the HMRC - if you really aren't making a profit then you won't have to pay any tax, but it still needs to be declared. Are you taking out any fees for yourself as organiser though?