to have let dd speak her mind to dp?

[MrsHamsterCheeks]

Dd is 7, dp has been around since she was one. Recently she's been really off with him - not wanting him to take her to school, hold her hand,read to her and so on. She'd rather miss out on doing something she enjoys than do it with him. He seems to just grate on her. For example, if her breakfast is ready I'd tell her so, if she didn't go to eat it within a minute I'd check she'd heard then leave her to it - her own fault if it goes cold, though 99% of the time she goes within a couple of minutes.

Dp on the other hand would tell her it's ready, then keeping saying 'come on, breakfast is ready' every twenty seconds until she gets annoyed or even try and lead her to the table. She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms but he just doesn't seem to get her anymore. By his method she usually leaves her breakfast then he'll offer her something else, so it isn't that I'm pandering to her - quite the opposite.

Today dp took our dd (14 months) out for a few hours as I had some work to catch up on. He then collected dd from school and took her to the dentist. When they returned I had cooked tea, I washed up, tidied, sorted out school bags, bathed the kids, did homework with dd, read stories with them both etc. He watched football and/or sat on his phone.

When he heard me telling dd2 that it was the last story I heard him creep upstairs and go and sit on dd1s bed as she'd been playing in her room. When dd2 and I entered dd1 glared at dp and said: 'i don't know why you're pretending you've been playing with me, mummy knows you've been downstairs on your phone you know.' He mumbled something about tidying up and she started ranting about how he hadn't tidied up, or washed up, or anything else because I'd done it as well as everything else while he played on his phone

She then proceeded to tell him that all he'd done that evening was upset dd2 by making her have tummy ache because all he'd fed her today was two lots of chips and a packet of crisps and by turning off the iPad quickly when he heard me coming downstairs so I wouldn't know he'd stuck dd2 in front of igglepiggle 'yet again.' I honestly never rant to or about dp so this tirade hasn't come from me.

Dp looked shocked and had a go at her for being a 'completely disrespectful little madame' and turned to me and said 'are you going to let her speak to me like this?' Dd2 was then sick so I had to sort her out but I could hear her and dp still bickering. I put dd1 to bed and said we'll talk in the morning as dd2 is still being sick and dp gone to work.

Aibu to have let her speak her mind? I feel it might do her good to get it off her chest as the resentment has obviously been building but then feel I'm undermining dp. However, everything she said was true so I can't tell her off for that. Maybe just speak to her about voicing her opinions more respectfully?? What do you think?

Mrs hamster. - why are you with him!??

For the OP - I think you have multiple issues at work in your family dynamic.
Your DD is growing up and asserting more autonomy naturally, your DP appears to not recognise or be able to adjust his parenting style in response.
Your DD appears to be going through a phase where she doesn't like your DP. That happens too, however her tirade at him really was disrespectful and your non-response has demonstrated to your DD that it's okay for her to be disrespectful to an adult.

You state that you really do like your DP so take a step back and remind yourself of the whole picture. Clearly you feel he is not pulling his weight around the house/parenting duties but remind yourself that he likely contributes in other areas (this is NOT to say you should give him a free pass on the areas you're frustrated with, but it's natural for us to overlook the things people do when we focus on what they aren't doing). Most importantly, your DD does not see the whole picture of your relationship with DP and his contributions to the family, how could she?, she is only 7 years old.

There must be something she likes about him if she is expecting again......

Of course YABU. Do you realise how dysfunctional this sounds? I feel so sad for you, do you have any idea how unsettling it must be for your children to live like this? If it were the other way round and you had a son who was siding with his father and criticising you for your shortcomings, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't think it was reasonable.

I think mrshamstercheeks is getting some unfairly harsh criticism.
I think in he position I would feel irritated and exhausted by the DP's nagging of dd1 on top of looking after a "clingy" 14 mo.
I find motherhood and breastfeeding a joy, my dcs are fabulous but frankly exhausting. My most restful time is my commute to work
If my dh wasn't great I think I'd be drowning tbh.
Is there anyone who helps you out? Any way of getting a little space for yourself to think/ have a lie down/ go for a walk/ watch some crap telly/ go out for lunch?
Are you a SAHP?

Missing - I see your point but if I keep stepping in surely I'm then being controlling and undermining him? He should have his own way of dealing with her by now. Deferring to me or else letting her get away with whatever isn't going to encourage her to have any respect for him.

As for all those who commented on dd Making up what dd2 had eaten as she wasn't there - he told her when she asked. Dd2 is fussy and he's happy to let her eat whatever stops her from whinging.

Genuine question here ..... What business is it of dd1 what dd2 eats!?

Sounds like she is a mini grown up! She's a wee girl worrying about adult problems! And some of that blame has to lay with the parents/adult
Role model in life and these boundaries redefined!
Old before her time

'what did you have for lunch?' is a sociable question, not a personal bloody attack.

OP you do sound very stressed and need a rest. I really think wurstwitch (writing at a very early hour this morning!) has got it right with sound advice. Is there any way you could just get away for a weekend, and then do the same for DP? I haven't read the whole thread admittedly. You have had a lot of harshness and scrutiny but your stressy- ness may need relieving to try to see things in more perspective. Good luck.

so your 7 year old asked your 14 month old what she had for tea? and got an answer?

baffled.

Sorry I'm actually appalled at the amount of people who say she was being rude. She was being honest, is she supposed to play along nicely and cover his ass by supporting his lies when he makes out he's been doing things with the kids when he's actually just been feeding them shit, plonking them in front of the telly and doing SFA with them?! I don't think she was being rude. I'd prefer a child to be honest like that rather than bottle things up for ages and wonder what's wrong with her. He sounds lazy and uninterested. I would definitely have a word with DD about not letting things go and talking to you both if she has a problem, maybe that would avoid any future outbursts (and stop him acting like a shit)

We have a 7 year old who wasn't there at the time saying what she thought a 14 month old who's too young to say for herself might have eaten all day and a toddler who had tummy ache in the afternoon and vomited in the evening.

That is what I thought, you have the 7yr old giving her SF a dressing down for 'only feeding her chips and crisps all day', yet according to the op, he was only with the 7yr for 10 minutes, so how would she know.

'what did you have for lunch?' is a sociable question,

Pretty sure most 7yr olds don't give a crap what their toddler sibling has eaten in the day.

The more you post op, the more it is apparent that you & your daughter do not like your dp & that he can do nothing right. I wonder if you constantly criticise him to his face, the way you have here, if so, it is no wonder he is withdrawing from family life.

AlansLeftMoob The thing is that most seem to be agreeing on , is that these are no issues that 7yr olds need to be dealing with & it certainly isn't up to her to be her mums mouth piece.

differentnameforthis I agree 100%, while I don't think she is intentionally being rude I think she has a serious problem with him and even though OP you say "the tirade didn't come from me" - it doesn't have to, kids are very good at picking up on the odd "Oh FFS" or sigh when a partner doesn't do something. The DD needs to be told that if she has issues to come to either parent (unless he's not considered a parent, and that's part of the problem) instead of bottling them up. If she had an outburst like that at him then does she really consider him a Dad? Because after 6+ years I wouldn't have thought that reaction was normal - fair enough if it was a relatively new relationship but he's been around since before she could speak - has he been a Dad? Has he been allowed to be a Dad to her? Is he shit or is he just not being given a chance?

She was being rude Alan.

There is a big difference between being forthright and being rude. I worry that you think this is normal behaviour. Children should have boundaries and be able to apply a filter to what comes out of their mouths by the time they reach 7 years of age.

I've finished reading the thread and it has made me so very tired. :(

Your family life sounds very stressful and unsatisfying for all involved.

I feel most sorry for your dp, and I'm not sure why he hasn't left. He seems to have the least satisfying role in the family.

I suggest you separate, let him develop a relationship with dd2 without dd1 (who has lost all respect for him) influencing how dd2 sees her father. You do need to detach from him and give him space to parent in his own ways as a single father.

What is he actually DOING on his phone for it to need so mych attention? ?

Why did he take dd2 away when she was happily playing? What was it to do instead?

Said in the beginning that he let Dd2 watch igglepiggle again. When was that as I thought ge took them out whilst you were working.

The OP is full of inconsistencies.

And I too feel for her DP to some extent.

Dd sounds like she has been privy to way too much drama, and consequently is precocious and rude.

Op, the ball is in your court. You have to get a hold of this situation.

what did you have for lunch is a sociable question. Ranting and raving at the person who said chips and crisps for "feeding her chips and crisps ALL DAY" is neither sociable or acceptable.

MrsHamster what are you going to do re your family dynamics as they are not working ATM. It also appears that everything is written to put for DP in a bad light. For example DP plays on his phone far too much and doesn't interact with the children and then is the bad guy for taking DD2 off to play whilst you do homework with DD1. He cannot win can he?
It very much sounds as if you wait around for the children needing your attention and then ask how high when they say jump. No wonder you DD1 thinks she's more important than she is.

My friend is exactly the same (Altho TBf she's a lot better now) as she ended up with 2 DDs who thought she should be at their beck and call and ranting at her when she wasn't, name calling began creeping in as well. The thought everything was their business and it was their business to pass judgement on what adults did and why - I'm pleased to say they got short shift from me when they questioned me and my house rules. Simple things like mu lounge is for visitors and children can play in bedroom or outside - they always wanted to be listening to adult conversations which at 6yo is just plain weird!

she was being rude AlAn I worry that you think this is normal behaviour

This place is hilarious sometimes. You could see the pursed lips from space.

He probably does feel undermined. and there are times when I would think that it's not appropriate for a child to address a parent in that way.
But it reads to me, personally, like he's just not interested and she's pissed off that he tries to make out that he is. Should she be expected to play along with his deception? What would ppl have her say?
I can't agree she was particularly rude. She just wasnt deferent.
Maybe she spoke out of turn.
What would you expect him or the op to do if DD had been asked to do her homework and all the whole she had been watching tv or playing a game?
Collude? Ignore it? Or call heron it?
She's only seven.
Just a little girl still.
And yes, what is he doing on his phone all the time? A game? Texting?
Is he on MN?

They are different if they suspect they might've missed out on some chips themselves!

Sharaluck - yes, it must be terrible for him to get up when he wants, eat when he wants, go to work when he wants, build a successful career because someone elseis llooking after his kids, go home when he wants, go out when he wants, watch tv when he wants, go to bed when he wants etc etc. All while I'm living it up getting up at 06.30 everyday, making packed lunches, getting ready while entertaining toddler, walking two miles to and then back from school, doing all the housework and all food shopping and jobs, walking the miles to school then to dds activities, sorted everything school related, cooking tea while entertaining toddler, bathing the kids, playing with the kids, reading to the kids then going to bed at the same time as them because toddler can't sleep without me laying there for an hour or two, before getting up at around 10/11 to have sex with dp and then do 4 hours work interspersed by stirring toddler.

Yes, it must be most unsatisfying for him

Youare - dd2 was playing happily alone, there was no need to take her away. Particularly by picking her up without a word, from behind, making her drop the toy she'd been looking for and ignoring when she complained until the point she is distraught and gets returned for me to deal with. If she'd already been fussing I'd understand, but he would've ignored her if that'd been the case.

But my point is he picked her up to interact because you've said he needs to interact more. There's no denying his attempts are not productive if they upset DD2, but he is trying. He's not getting it right hence my repeated comments about the whole family dynamic.

Your post about how it works re him working and you doing everything else only goes to prove the point further. You are living separate lives around the children not parenting together. Either speak to him and accept his attempts at changing this and accept that in the change process he'll make mistakes or split up. Clearly neither of your lives are happy ATM and norther is your 7yo DDs - and that is the problem.

My DP was the same after DS was born, thought that his life and mine to some extent shouldn't change. He continued living his life and although we both worked still left the house jobs to me 95% of the time. He did make attempt ps when I explained how tired I was - too tired for sex like you - as he thought (I think) if he cleaned the house for a day he'd get it that night. He did not.
I kicked him out when DS was 13 months old after he did get sex (from someone else) and told him if he'd for his priorities right we'd have sorted it out. (This was when he tried to come back - and refused it do it on my terms).