to have let dd speak her mind to dp?

[MrsHamsterCheeks]

Dd is 7, dp has been around since she was one. Recently she's been really off with him - not wanting him to take her to school, hold her hand,read to her and so on. She'd rather miss out on doing something she enjoys than do it with him. He seems to just grate on her. For example, if her breakfast is ready I'd tell her so, if she didn't go to eat it within a minute I'd check she'd heard then leave her to it - her own fault if it goes cold, though 99% of the time she goes within a couple of minutes.

Dp on the other hand would tell her it's ready, then keeping saying 'come on, breakfast is ready' every twenty seconds until she gets annoyed or even try and lead her to the table. She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms but he just doesn't seem to get her anymore. By his method she usually leaves her breakfast then he'll offer her something else, so it isn't that I'm pandering to her - quite the opposite.

Today dp took our dd (14 months) out for a few hours as I had some work to catch up on. He then collected dd from school and took her to the dentist. When they returned I had cooked tea, I washed up, tidied, sorted out school bags, bathed the kids, did homework with dd, read stories with them both etc. He watched football and/or sat on his phone.

When he heard me telling dd2 that it was the last story I heard him creep upstairs and go and sit on dd1s bed as she'd been playing in her room. When dd2 and I entered dd1 glared at dp and said: 'i don't know why you're pretending you've been playing with me, mummy knows you've been downstairs on your phone you know.' He mumbled something about tidying up and she started ranting about how he hadn't tidied up, or washed up, or anything else because I'd done it as well as everything else while he played on his phone

She then proceeded to tell him that all he'd done that evening was upset dd2 by making her have tummy ache because all he'd fed her today was two lots of chips and a packet of crisps and by turning off the iPad quickly when he heard me coming downstairs so I wouldn't know he'd stuck dd2 in front of igglepiggle 'yet again.' I honestly never rant to or about dp so this tirade hasn't come from me.

Dp looked shocked and had a go at her for being a 'completely disrespectful little madame' and turned to me and said 'are you going to let her speak to me like this?' Dd2 was then sick so I had to sort her out but I could hear her and dp still bickering. I put dd1 to bed and said we'll talk in the morning as dd2 is still being sick and dp gone to work.

Aibu to have let her speak her mind? I feel it might do her good to get it off her chest as the resentment has obviously been building but then feel I'm undermining dp. However, everything she said was true so I can't tell her off for that. Maybe just speak to her about voicing her opinions more respectfully?? What do you think?

Morning!
Ooh so many "experts" in child psychology.
Just because children can and do say things that are not true does not mean that it's acceptable or appropriate to dismiss what they tell us.
Adults are much more skilled and prolific liars.

OP how do you feel about your DP I wonder?
Because it all sounds exhausting.
I don't think your dd was disrespectful.
I think your way of doing things sounds more effective and considered than his.
Are you significantly more intelligent than he is?
He sounds disengaged. You've noticed, your dd has noticed and she notices you noticing. Is this fixable?
Oh, please feel free not to answer my questions. They're just milling about in my head.

Thing is, my DH is better at some things, and I at others. Overall we seem (fingers crossed) to complement each other and respect each other so we can show a united front.
But I wouldn't have him being repeatedly unfair or inconsistent with our DCs and I doubt he'd put up with that from me. its not helpful now of course but if he was the kind of man who was forever trying to opt out of his responsibilities, or who was habitually deceptive I wouldn't have married him.

I would say, keep listening you your daughter and help her learn to keep speaking her mind to others in a way that shows appropriate spect, but not deference IYSWIM.

He is probably using his phone to create his own place in a house where his very existence is treated as a crime.

Sorry, but the lack of awareness of physical boundaries would ring alarm bells for me.

The breakfast thing, I know others disagree, but the physical response is disproportionate and wrong. That he doesn't respect your physical boundaries would worry me. Showing affection is good and well, but it is surely mutual. If you are not comfortable with being kissed at a given point, he should respect that. Quite frankly, if dd sees him kissing you etc when you have said, no, not just now, or at an inappropriate time, then she learns that male physical attention should always be accepted. Combine that with the expectation that she collude in lies, that really is not good, as her physical and emotional integrity is threatened. As is yours.

Question, which you don't need to answer online, is whether he respects your physical boundaries sexually.

And the suggestion that he is withdrawing into his phone because you are not constantly responsive to his physical need for affection, the OP is doing the lion's share of the work domestically, she is probably exhausted. Taking dc to play and to the dentist is part of being a parent, that is basic requirement, not absolves of all other responsibility!!!

Anyway, I think if you feel life is calmer and more peaceful when it is just you and dc, you have an issue which has two possible outcomes. The first is that things get worse and you separate, as your primary responsibility is to dc; or you seek help from a trained family therapist to address the issues. The therapist can be helpful, even if you do then separate, but s/he will help you with the dynamics now as well.

OP - do you put this much thought into everything you do with your DD? It seems that everything you do has to come with instructions - sometimes things have to be done just because they have to be done...

"If we approach a road I'd forewarn dd to swap her bag to the other hand so she can hold my hand for the road, which she'd do with no problem."

At the age of 7 she should be capable of crossing a road without being prepared in advance.

If your whole life is like this it is no wonder your DP has disengaged from it.

We have 3 boys; if I took your approach to breakfast they would still be in PJs and playing with lego at 8.10 when it was time to go to school. There are times when I need to put military planning in place and times when I can be flexible.

Children have to learn that sometimes things need to be done urgently (getting ready to go to school) and quickly and sometimes they don't (going to the park) - this is not a bad lesson to learn for adult life. If your daughter is a mature as you say she should be able to understand this.

I have a friend who's DH is almost always disengaged. He resents being married and saddled with family life. To anyone who listens he sounds like a poor nagged man whose wife "doesn't understand him" and needs space to himself.
He is an arse. He has almost no interpersonal skills beyond eyeing up women. He is woefully inconsistent with their DC, one minute the generous doting dad and then , when the control inevitably slips as it does with ppl like that, he goes into overdrive.
So I'd always advise being wary of someone who claims no one at home "respects" him or does as he says.
Ask properly FFS!

And if you want more attention from your DP then help her out more effectively, show you care and stop trying to suck her face when she's blowing her nose.
Poor thing, not enough attention so needs to look for something else (in this case his phone)

But the op's dd does respond well to her breakfast arrangement.
She isn't still in her pjs when they need to go to school.

Okay I fully admit I haven't RTFT, but I've scrolled and got a general gist.

Could it be as simple as new baby + Knowing DPO isn't my 'real dad' but he is DFsis's 'real dad,' I've overheard or picked up there are issues between him and mummy, I'm insecure and I want to know he loves me as much as my sister?

That's how I'd read the situation anyway, especially given her comments about his parents of her little sister.

Whether he's a lazy knob or not, that's JMO. I think she's insecure and lashing out. Yes, he should not be on his phone during her events but that's more of (in her mind) justification to her behaviour that the actual ROOT of the problem.

I will RTFT now.

Please excuse typos.

Wow Amanda, you seem a little stressed this morning.

The OP seems incredibly controlling to me and both her and her daughter seem to have strict routines that need to be followed or else problems follow (breakfast and road crossing being the examples that stand out) - assuming there are no special needs that require such routines, then she should by the age of 7 be able to adapt to the different parenting style and be able to cross a road without making such a fuss.

The OP has two children now and may have more in the future, her DD will have to learn that things sometimes need to be controlled more strictly, or be more flexible, or nothing will ever get done.

DP doesn't appear useless - he spent 4 hours looking after the youngest daughter, before doing school pick-up, a dentist appointment and then working a nightshift. Most night-workers would have spent a fair amount of time in bed.

Blue, I also thought that it all sounds very demanding in terms of how everything must be done a certain way. OP's latest recounting of the 'come to breakfast scenario' has changed, too. In the thread opener it was 'She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms' whereas now it's that she comes right away but is just finishing the said we her book. I don't like the way the narrative is being shaped to get people frothing about the partner.

Meant 'just finishing the page of her book'

it's not strict routines fgs. it's common sense and being 'connected' with your child. if you're tuned in to each other it's not a planned routine it's just communication and the way of doing things you fall into.

it's like any relationship, it has it's rhythm and flow but that requires engagement and mutual respect and care and consideration (most of which will have to be on the adults part in a parent/child relationship initially as they're children). if you never tune into a child or make any effort to have a relationship and a way of communicating then no it's not there - same as in any relationship! the dp doesn't sound like he's capable of tuning into his partner either re: the intimacy and sense of when to kiss someone or when you're crowding them etc. to then compound that inability to include someone else's reality and being in a transaction by just not even bothering and using physical force instead obviously isn't going to help build a relationship.

whoever it was that asked there is a clear difference between taking a minute to come and eat your breakfast and taking an hour to get home in the dark when you're meant to be in. i'm raising a human being not a dog - we're capable of rationality, subtlety, understanding context etc. my dog needs an instant recall because she doesn't know the diffference between me calling her because she's about to hit by a car or calling her because i'd like to give her to come in from the garden and eat her food. her cognition is not going to keep developing for the next decade, she's reached her peak! there are so many false analogies and strawmen arguments on here.

everything , exactly - the narrative is being shaped.

sillylass, I haven't missed your point. Your point is wrong. Flat out wrong. You can keep restating it in different ways, but you are wrong. Children of seven can and do tell lies. Of all sorts.

Hahaha!

I swore to myself I wouldn't come back to the thread, it was just getting stupid.

But boy, am I glad I came back to see the 'small children don't lie' line!

HoneyBadger - Life does not have to be so complicated. You do not need a set routine for crossing a road. A seven year old should be able to adapt to a "hold my hand now please" request to cross a road without the need for the bag swapping faff that seems to go on. (This would be far too difficult to manage with more than one child).

If the OP is that precise in this then I imagine it extends to everything else too.

Parents parent if different ways, and unless there is something inherently wrong or damaging in what they do then they should be support each other.

It all sounds very controlling from the mother not the Step-Father with no flexibility to do anything different as she is always right.

Ok... I read this the other day and walked away from the 'little madam' comments as I wanted more info on your partner's behaviour and it seems he wants people to say 'how high' when he jumps, to spend all day on his phone and to have absolute control over everyone including you - not allowing you to sit on the floor or make eye contact without kissing you.

And alongside; he is spending all his time on the phone when he takes the kids out - and when he is at home. Is he really that important that a text cannot wait? And doesn't his phone have a 'text received' noise that you can hear when it arrives? Is he really that popular - if it's an emergency surely someone will call him not text? When we get home, the phone might be checked before bedtime but it will be sat in bags or charging all evening. It's a lifestyle tool, not a lifestyle choice.

Anyway - you said you do want to be with him but it is fraught when he is there. So sit with him, tell him to back off and try some different styles of parenting that don't involve manhandling children and maybe you won't kick him out. Perhaps you could both do some parenting classes together so you can come up with some shared strategies to deal with things.

But feeding kids chips and crisps and spending all him time on the phone; is not only not working but will just continue to alienate himself from the family.

The biggest role model to your younger daughter will be your older daughter and if she hates him by then, what sort of family dynamic will that engender?

But there are ways and means of doing things differently; physically dragging a child around is not one of them. It would involve discussion between the parents. The OP has explained why she thinks things are better done a certain way (to avoid a 14 month old screaming at hair wash time; this is being ignored).

To the point about the DD not responding when she is a teenager, I have a slightly different view on the 'just finishing this page', then arriving at table scenario. What is happening is a mutual negotiation of arriving at the table. The OP understands that her DD is an automous person, and the world doesn't stop turning if it takes an extra minute for her to arrive at the table. This is more likely to result in a teenager who will phone her mum and say, I want to stay out a bit later with X person, and if there is any danger in this, the DD and OP will negotiate a reasonable solution. My DD is older than the OP's, and honestly, she is entirely responsible with where she is supposed to be and when and with communication. I've always let her 'just finish the page'. I would rather that she understood that she exists within a world where she has the right to be heard and to negotiate her physical and emotional surroundings than one where she is expected to obey and physically made to obey.

I am not sure how objecting to your DC being physically manhandled and distressed makes you controlling, but I seem to be in a minority with that.

I feel sorry for him having to endure open criticism from both the OP and DD. I absolutely do not blame him for being detatched

Sorry, my opening line was in response to this 'Parents parent in different ways'

Well as a child who has said exactly the same thing to my mum about my dad... I would say that that sort of comment isn't the child being disrespectful or that there is a big issue with the child herself.
One way or the other, this child has understood what is seriously bothering her mum and said it aloud when the OP doesn't dare to (as it would be upsetting for her DP etc...). I did the same thing and it really upset my mum even though I couldn't quite understand why at the time. I actually didn't really have an issue with my dad. It's just that the situation suddenly looked extremely unfair to me (and yes it was all about the fact she doing everything and he was chosing what to do, ie taking the 'easy' bits and leaving her with the rest). And I am pretty sure I said what my mum thought ie 'YOUR ARE NOT PULLING YOUR WEIGHT!'

OP you say that everything is harmonious when it's just you and the dcs and then it's fraud when your DP is there.
You can see how your DP's parenting migth not be the best way to approach things and there are also some issues between you and DP.
So my question is: have you talked about it to your DP? Cue: not telling him you don't want a kiss when you are blowing your nose shouldn't be an issue. He should be able to realize that on his own and certainly not take it as an attack is you do. Is he always the type to say 'I want to do it my way, don't care if yours seem to be working better. I am just RIGHT anyway.'?
And what do you get out of this relationship?

So if your 7 year old child was tantruming at the side if a busy road would you...

A- allow her to continue and put her self at risk
B- take her by the arm and make her cross the road

I would choose B - not that I have been put in this situation.

The OP should be supporting her DP - not with the manhandling, because with flexible parenting it shouldn't get to that stage, but with allowing him to do things his way - eg cross the road without bag swapping and preparation nonsense, or eat breakfast when it is ready. It seems that she is constantly involving her DD in her battles with her DP and it is not working for any of them.

Oh and I agree with daffodildays. The OP has, imo, a great way to approach parenting. he sees her dd as an independent person, one that can be trusted to stop at the end of the page as she says.
Her DP on the other side thinks the best way is to impose his will with little respect for the child, ie snatch the book, loose the page etc... If he was seeing her doing that to her dsis, I am pretty sure he would be very angry as you know 'she should learn not to snatch but use words' and 'be respectful'.
Oh maybe actually this is what he HAS taught her. That being disrespectful to people is OK.

One last comment is that saying the truth, even if it's very annoying to hear it, is NOT rude.

The reality is that dd1 said things that were true but very unsavoury. And he knew it. Much easier to put the responsibility on the child and say it's all her fault for being disrespectful rather than acknowledging your own mistakes.

Actually BorcestshireBlue it depends a lot of the child.
I am very much no nonsense type of person. And a clear cut approach has always being my choice.
It worked with dc1. Very well.
It never ever worked with dc2. Any attempt to say 'Come now' has always being made to clear cut refusal. I have actually done the 'manhandling' and it didn't work either. Similarly to the OP's dd, dc2 would have just NOT done whatever I had asked him to do. And could have stayed sit on the stool in front of b'fast for an hour wo eating one bit (Tired it....). At that point, you do need another approach and the OP's seem to be working well, even if it looks too 'soft' for you. She does as she is told and is learning to how important it is to respect everyone needs, both hers and her mum's.