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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to have let dd speak her mind to dp?

738 replies

MrsHamsterCheeks · 13/03/2014 22:55

Dd is 7, dp has been around since she was one. Recently she's been really off with him - not wanting him to take her to school, hold her hand,read to her and so on. She'd rather miss out on doing something she enjoys than do it with him. He seems to just grate on her. For example, if her breakfast is ready I'd tell her so, if she didn't go to eat it within a minute I'd check she'd heard then leave her to it - her own fault if it goes cold, though 99% of the time she goes within a couple of minutes.

Dp on the other hand would tell her it's ready, then keeping saying 'come on, breakfast is ready' every twenty seconds until she gets annoyed or even try and lead her to the table. She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms but he just doesn't seem to get her anymore. By his method she usually leaves her breakfast then he'll offer her something else, so it isn't that I'm pandering to her - quite the opposite.

Today dp took our dd (14 months) out for a few hours as I had some work to catch up on. He then collected dd from school and took her to the dentist. When they returned I had cooked tea, I washed up, tidied, sorted out school bags, bathed the kids, did homework with dd, read stories with them both etc. He watched football and/or sat on his phone.

When he heard me telling dd2 that it was the last story I heard him creep upstairs and go and sit on dd1s bed as she'd been playing in her room. When dd2 and I entered dd1 glared at dp and said: 'i don't know why you're pretending you've been playing with me, mummy knows you've been downstairs on your phone you know.' He mumbled something about tidying up and she started ranting about how he hadn't tidied up, or washed up, or anything else because I'd done it as well as everything else while he played on his phone Confused

She then proceeded to tell him that all he'd done that evening was upset dd2 by making her have tummy ache because all he'd fed her today was two lots of chips and a packet of crisps and by turning off the iPad quickly when he heard me coming downstairs so I wouldn't know he'd stuck dd2 in front of igglepiggle 'yet again.' I honestly never rant to or about dp so this tirade hasn't come from me.

Dp looked shocked and had a go at her for being a 'completely disrespectful little madame' and turned to me and said 'are you going to let her speak to me like this?' Dd2 was then sick so I had to sort her out but I could hear her and dp still bickering. I put dd1 to bed and said we'll talk in the morning as dd2 is still being sick and dp gone to work.

Aibu to have let her speak her mind? I feel it might do her good to get it off her chest as the resentment has obviously been building but then feel I'm undermining dp. However, everything she said was true so I can't tell her off for that. Maybe just speak to her about voicing her opinions more respectfully?? What do you think?

OP posts:
winterkills · 16/03/2014 13:18

I spoke to him today. He said I am 'ocd' in my consistency which makes the kids resistant to any other way. I pointed out that no one else besides him has a problem with them

But also saying of the dd I know she can be awkward. So someone else must be having a problem with her at some times?

Sounds like the pattern for many failed relationships - the OP insists on everything being done her way and chips away at any confidence the dp might have in parenting while massively resenting lack of support from him.

Piscivorus · 16/03/2014 13:32

It does sound OP as though you are very determined that your way is the correct way to do things and, if he doesn't do things your way, you will not support him. Children pick up on these things and so you are undermining him with them.
My DH does a lot of things differently to how I would do them but that is a positive thing and our DCs always appreciated and respected those differences.

I think again we are coming back to the real problem being in your relationship with DP and you are allowing, even encouraging, your daughter to behave badly as a result.

MrsHamsterCheeks · 16/03/2014 13:48

Me talking about crossing the road is in the natural course of conversation. I don't make her hold my hand for every road (unnecessary if quiet or she's holding onto pushchair) so when she needs to, it needs mentioning. She doesn't 'tantrum at the roadside' for him. Without a word, he'll try and hold her hand (particularly apparent when he diverts from a straight path to cross to the road at the side of it iyswim, rather than dd seeing it approaching and being aware they'll be crossing) and she'll complain that he's hurting her hand because of the bag. She'll try and let go and he'll moan at her for messing around near roads. Rather than giving her 5 seconds to move the bag he then grabs her wrist to drag her across the road. It's inconsistent to be willing to wait so long in the morning for her to get up but he can't give her a few seconds at a roadside to make sure she's properly ready.

I can't believe people have seriously suggested I'm abusive. That is laughable. If we were having these difficulties and he'd only been around for a year or so it'd be understandable but he should pretty much know her as well as me because he's been around so long. So it's either that he doesn't notice the way she prefers to be dealt with (ie given respect, personal space and the responsibility to make the right decisions for herself) probably because he's too engrossed in his phone, or that he sees what causes problems and does it anyway.

OP posts:
youarewinning · 16/03/2014 14:27

"Small children don't lie" well I have a SaLT report for DS that states he cannot lie due to his SN and professionals/educators etc need to be aware of this. Because it's "normal" for children to bend the truth to put them in a good light because the see things from their own viewpoint.

And trust me having a child who cannot lie is not always a good thing Blush

Grin

OP - you really seem determined to show yourself as the better parent and your DP as a poor influence on DD and in the house.

So why are you still with him - you clearly don't respect or like him.

Changeasgoodas · 16/03/2014 14:33

OP - you have chosen to have DC, you have chosen a DP who finds it pretty dull, especially perhaps the "girly" things your DD is interested in. You both need to grow up, accept that this is now life and life is sometimes going to be boring, stop fearing honesty, go to couples therapy and get it out in the open. Do what you can to break the cycle so your DD isn't posting this in 20 years...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/a2026681-dp-is-waiting-in-the-spare-room-for-sex

wannabestressfree · 16/03/2014 15:11

I attempted to wade through most of this so apologise if I am repeating....
Op you come across as very defensive 'it's my way or the highway'. You seem to take quite an unhealthy interest in his battery life. Cut him some slack.
Your daughter is 7. I have three children older than that and I wouldn't expect them to talk in that way to an adult. She is a mini you. You then left him to deal with it. Nice.
Whether she is precious, an intelligent 'over aware child' or what she is not emotionally mature enough to deal with how she is feeling. You and your partner could sit down together and talk to her.
Lastly the comment you put above about her crossing the road is ludicrous. She might need patience, understanding and respect to cross the road but grow up a bit please. I need to cross a road I sometimes grab my sons hand- he might moan. Tough....
I feel sorry for your partner actually

EverythingCounts · 16/03/2014 15:42

So the spare room thread linked to above is by the OP on this thread? Goodness me, your life is complicated.

TheHoneyBadger · 16/03/2014 16:57

OP it's just getting nastier and nastier on here. i'm finding it yuk enough and it's not my child or life. i would back away now if i were you.

i think you need to consider that it's time to call it quits fwiw.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 16/03/2014 17:08

OP, I notice from another thread that you've mentioned you might be pregnant again. Whatever the result, it's important that you and your partner agree a way to parent your children because if your daughter is feeling a bit 'pushed aside', a new sibling might add to that anxiousness.

Hope all goes well and that you and your partner can resolve whatever difficulties there might be. I think that your daughter should be kept entirely innocent of them and be shown whatever boundaries you've both decided upon.

daffodildays · 16/03/2014 17:46

The thread linked to above answers my question about sexual boundaries. I only read the OP, I am not sure of the etiquette on linking threads. It all seems a bit invasive now.

I would suggest that not only doesn't he respect your DD's personal space or give her respect and responsibility to make her own decisions, he doesn't respect yours either.

Boney, I think the OP said that the DD doesn't want to spend time with the DP these days. I have to say, if it was my DD, I would not be forcing her, but then I wouldn't be staying in the r/s either. But that takes a while to see when you are in it.

But yes, enjoyed the small bit of sunshine. I'm with honey that this thread is distressing, and I wish the OP all the best in finding a way through.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/03/2014 18:05

daffodildays

"but then I wouldn't be staying in the r/s either. But that takes a while to see when you are in it."

I agree with you on this. if the relationship is as bad as described then ending it may well be the only way to go.
But that will open up all sorts of issues re contact for their children.

daffodildays · 16/03/2014 20:27

Boney, you are right re the contact issues.

My personal view is that sorting the contact issues is better than the day to day exhaustion and dysfunction, and feeling like I am compromising my dd's wellbeing to keep the peace, even if she is being physically led/pulled/ pushed and verbally abused.

But when the person you are separating from is your other dc father, and you are going to break up their day to day relationship, and that is never what you envisaged or wanted, that is an almost impossible decision to make. It only becomes a viable decision when things get intolerable and sorting the contact issues looks easier.

Okay, definitely think I have said more than my tuppence worth. I guess concern about contact issues should not be a reason to stay, as long as one accepts one has an ongoing responsibility to sort contact issues ( potentially a whole other discussion).

Coldlightofday · 16/03/2014 20:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsHamsterCheeks · 16/03/2014 22:10

I think I've had enough. The girls and I had a lovely day today, both happy, laughing and playing together nicely all day. Within literally 5 mins of him being back he's bickering with dd1 over nothing and dd2 is crying because she's frustrated at trying to do something and he doesn't notice or respond until she cries because guess what? He's on his phone!

Was trying to do homework with dd1 and dd2 was playing with cars. She went to fetch another one and he followed her, then picked her up and took her away upstairs. Shes crying because she was busy playing, he brings her back down two mins later and shrugs as if tosay 'i tried' and puts her down. she then comes and clings to me and climbs all over me so I can't focus properly on dd1.

Then later he said to dd1: 'can you brush your hair now', she begins brushing it. He says 'no, I'm brushing it, bring it here', she says: 'you asked me to brush and I'm brushing'. Usually he'd manhandle brush off her at this point resulting in an argument but because I mentioned he's too physical when we spoke, he continues with: 'come on let me brush it,' I'm brushing it' on repeat with dd1 reiterating that she is capable of brushing her own hair, thank you. I'm not kidding you, this conversation went on for twenty mins while I was playing with dd2. I could feel his eyes burning into me willing me to tell herto listen to him but surely it's up to him to do that? If I step in all the time she'll never respect him, surely?

Am just well and truly sick of it all, tbh.

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 16/03/2014 22:50

That all just sounds weird.

It's as though he really doesn't know how to behave - and not just with children.

Clutterbugsmum · 16/03/2014 22:50

I think your OP, you need to reasses what you and your dc need.

To me it sounds like he tried to get you to intervene between him and you DD1 to cause an arguement between him and you. Because the normal adult response your dd saying she can brush her own hair would be "ok you try and if you need help with the back then just ask" not the whole conversation about who should do it.

Glad you had a nice day out with your dc.

MrsHamsterCheeks · 16/03/2014 22:58

He doesn't argue with me though, that's what I don't get. If I speak to him.about anything he'll just apologise repeatedly. It's infuriating and not productive in the slightest. Not that I want to argue but I don't get why he won't argue with me but will non-stop with dd1. I think he wants me to intervene in situations like tonight so he gets a bit of a power trip if I back him up and not dd but I'm fed up of being required at all times. I really am.

OP posts:
differentnameforthis · 17/03/2014 03:11

Just because children can and do say things that are not true does not mean that it's acceptable or appropriate to dismiss what they tell us.

I don't think anyone is saying it is acceptable or appropriate to dismiss what they tell us, or saying that the daughter in this case is lying. We are commenting on a pp's insistence that children of this age don't/can't lie. When experience tells us all differently.

differentnameforthis · 17/03/2014 03:18

do you put this much thought into everything you do with your DD? It seems that everything you do has to come with instructions - sometimes things have to be done just because they have to be done..."If we approach a road I'd forewarn dd to swap her bag to the other hand so she can hold my hand for the road, which she'd do with no problem."

Agree with this, when I approach a road with my 5yr old, I put my hand out & she grabs it, no dialogue needed. I too wonder if the dp finds all the instruction exhausting.

UncleT · 17/03/2014 03:35

There's certainly a very weird dynamic going on between them, based on what you report. To be frank, it sounds like they're possibly both jealous of each other and vying for you.

differentnameforthis · 17/03/2014 03:45

I don't like the way the narrative is being shaped to get people frothing about the partner.

Agree again..in the op she said he did the school run, took dd1 to the dentist, then later when asked/pulled up on it she said it took all of 10 minutes. I also don't understand how dd1 knew what the dp had fed dd2 all day!

She'll try and let go and he'll moan at her for messing around near roads And so he should.

Wurstwitch · 17/03/2014 04:53

This is the dynamic in my house too. I'm a complete control freak, like mrshamstercheeks. My dh is shit scared of getting anything/ everything wrong (ie not the way I insist upon it being done) and so he gets on his iPhone.

That pisses me off even more.

I am proper lolling at mrshamstercheeks, because at least I can see I have created the whole bloody mess. Grin

Oh, and my three kids are all working between 2-5 years ahead (blah blah blah). They wouldn't dare not to be, frankly. My colleagues at work were taking the piss out of me last week because I had warned dd1 that I viewed 90% as borderline failure on the exam she had taken. She got a lecture instead of congratulations. Grin

Ds is the epitome of your spoilt outspoken dd, op.

Fortunately, I am extremely open about my control freak tendencies, and my children, husband and work colleagues all acknowledge them openly.

We laugh about it, I adjust, and then we get on with our lives. Even dd1, who despite the dire warnings about her terrible grades, is a happy teen who chats to me about why I feel 90% is sailing too close to the wind... And, tee hee, agrees.

Take a good look in the mirror. Grin

Essentially, I know exactly what my personality type is, and so, since the first dc was a baby, I have disappeared one weekend a month and left dh to it. He's their father, he can parent them however he likes, and form his own bonds. It isn't up to me to tell him what to do, when, or to stand by and criticize him when he makes his choices. I just leave them to it.

No one has died. They may well have eaten chips and got tummy ache (but bwahahahahaha at the 7yo knowing that. Fuck me she's clever. She can read her crystal ball and know what the baby had for lunch!) gone to bed late, had two breakfasts because they refused the first one, and been manhandled across the road. They may have been ignored in favour of the phone, even.

Yes, it makes me crazy. My teeth itch. I want to snatch the phone and wang it into the garden, because when I'm in the house he defers to me. Because he knows what I'm like.

So, sometimes, I am the one that retreats to the phone, so that everyone else has to make decisions, and I can't get involved because I will make different ones. It's relinquishment of control, and permission for them all to work it out themselves. No one comes running to me to tell daddy off. Or tittle tattling about how they got it wrong.

We just parent differently, but hey, we both parent.

Mine are older than yours now, op, obviously, and dh and I have worked through my control freakery.

One day you will laugh at how crazy you were about a stupid phone. Or you will divorce him, add another sd into the mix, and continue to believe in the myth of your own one True parenting way forever. It is entirely up to you, of course. There are no rules, you can do whatever you like.

Maybe try working together, instead of you imposing the law, occasionally? Even if (of course) you believe in the efficacy of your patented methodology... (And you are of course right. It's just a bit insufferable as a personality trait, and gets to be quite stressful bearing the responsibility after a while.)

It's likely that your conviction results from your period as a lone parent, I would think. I have a similar excuse - dh was in a serious accident and not expected to survive, and so I became the 'coper' and was forced to take sole responsibility and get everything right. As a result, I have absolute faith in my own methods, and know how everything should be done. Grin

So, I have to force myself to lower my standards and realize that the world won't fall apart. I have also had to teach my children that, too. Grin

Maybe you need to discuss this sort of thing with dd1? She's pretty bright - she'll soon learn that both mummy and daddy can make their own decisions, and that chips don't make people poorly, even if mummy insists that she eats something else (but only on her own terms of course, and whenever she feels like eating it, and that there won't ever be a second choice).

Ah, I love a bit of projection of an evening.

MrRected · 17/03/2014 05:36

Your DD is a right little madam OP and YWBVU "letting" her berate her step-dad.

You inadvertently acknowledged the problem by starting this thread. No 7 year old should speak to any adult like that. She has a disproportionate sense of her place in the household IMO.

I agree with those who have said you are going to be in a world of pain when she reaches 12 years old. A world of pain.

Toadinthehole · 17/03/2014 06:06

Wurstwitch

Brilliant, brilliant post. Just - very well said.

Toadinthehole · 17/03/2014 06:25

I may be wronging the OP terribly, but reading this thread has me more and more worried for OP's dp. The possible backstory in my mind is this:

  1. OP picks rows with dp in front of the children.
  2. DP accordingly has three choices
a) leave b) not argue back c) argue back.

All of them have costs. The first costs everyone a world of trouble and wrecks a possibly salvagable relationship. The second costs him both his self-esteem and also the esteem of the children. I do not believe for a second that the average child comes out with a mini-Jane Eyre tirade against an adult purely from a sense of justice. The average child trusts his or her parents. So I reckon the average child who sees one parent being criticised by another will assume that the criticism is fair enough, unless the other responds, which brings me to c).

Which, as it happens, is just what I did. And yes I know that it is wrong to argue in front of children. But I decided it was even worse to permanently lose my children's (and for that matter, DW's) respect in a misguided attempt to keep the peace.

It seems to me that the dp has opted for b) and as a result hasn't enough self-esteem to pull his weight as a parent. He needs to sort this out - but it is going to be hard for him and everyone else if he hasn't the support he needs to do it.

I would be delighted to have a child with the chutzpah to speak out like the OP's dd has - but I think she does need to be told that this is not her fight.