to have let dd speak her mind to dp?

[MrsHamsterCheeks]

Dd is 7, dp has been around since she was one. Recently she's been really off with him - not wanting him to take her to school, hold her hand,read to her and so on. She'd rather miss out on doing something she enjoys than do it with him. He seems to just grate on her. For example, if her breakfast is ready I'd tell her so, if she didn't go to eat it within a minute I'd check she'd heard then leave her to it - her own fault if it goes cold, though 99% of the time she goes within a couple of minutes.

Dp on the other hand would tell her it's ready, then keeping saying 'come on, breakfast is ready' every twenty seconds until she gets annoyed or even try and lead her to the table. She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms but he just doesn't seem to get her anymore. By his method she usually leaves her breakfast then he'll offer her something else, so it isn't that I'm pandering to her - quite the opposite.

Today dp took our dd (14 months) out for a few hours as I had some work to catch up on. He then collected dd from school and took her to the dentist. When they returned I had cooked tea, I washed up, tidied, sorted out school bags, bathed the kids, did homework with dd, read stories with them both etc. He watched football and/or sat on his phone.

When he heard me telling dd2 that it was the last story I heard him creep upstairs and go and sit on dd1s bed as she'd been playing in her room. When dd2 and I entered dd1 glared at dp and said: 'i don't know why you're pretending you've been playing with me, mummy knows you've been downstairs on your phone you know.' He mumbled something about tidying up and she started ranting about how he hadn't tidied up, or washed up, or anything else because I'd done it as well as everything else while he played on his phone

She then proceeded to tell him that all he'd done that evening was upset dd2 by making her have tummy ache because all he'd fed her today was two lots of chips and a packet of crisps and by turning off the iPad quickly when he heard me coming downstairs so I wouldn't know he'd stuck dd2 in front of igglepiggle 'yet again.' I honestly never rant to or about dp so this tirade hasn't come from me.

Dp looked shocked and had a go at her for being a 'completely disrespectful little madame' and turned to me and said 'are you going to let her speak to me like this?' Dd2 was then sick so I had to sort her out but I could hear her and dp still bickering. I put dd1 to bed and said we'll talk in the morning as dd2 is still being sick and dp gone to work.

Aibu to have let her speak her mind? I feel it might do her good to get it off her chest as the resentment has obviously been building but then feel I'm undermining dp. However, everything she said was true so I can't tell her off for that. Maybe just speak to her about voicing her opinions more respectfully?? What do you think?

He has all day at work to use his phone as he likes. He has all evening once the kids are in bed to use it. I don't think me, and then dd, asking him to pay some attention to the kids for those few hours in between is much to ask.

Sorry OP but just talking to him isn't working. If you want something to change and there is resistance, do something a bit more drastic. You will end up eternally unhappy, as will your dp and consequently your children. Start being proactive not reactive (hate that phrase but it seems appropriate).

I think two things from what you have added.

He is disengaged as a parent, and when he does try to parent, he ignores their physical boundaries.

DD is not the issue here. DD will pick up on the tensions, but she is not causing them. Don't allow her to become the issue.

He wouldn't have to offer a second breakfast if he didn'tcause an aargument over the first one! Even so, if dd didn't eat breakfast for whatever reason for me she'd then go without. She knows he'll make her another so why bother listening first time?

It goes like this:

Dp: dd, put that down and come get your breakfast
Dd: I'll be one minute, just finishing this page
Dp: no, now. It's getting cold
Dd: I'm coming
Dp: close the book right now
Dd: ok ok (trying to finish page as she slowly gets up)
Dp: you're too slow, it'll be cold (snatches book, closes without marking page, puts out of reach, puts arm around dd to frogmarch her to table)
Dd: you've just lost my page/please don't snatch/ow you're hurting me etc

Cue much bickering, no breakfast eaten until ten mins later he offers a second one.

Whereas with me:

Me: dd, your breakfast is on the table
Dd: ok thanks, just finishing this page and I'll be there

She finishes page, she eats breakfast.

No it's not too much to ask. He should want to spend time with both children. But he doesn't want to. He also seems adept at upsetting both of them. So what will you do about it since talking isn't working? Do you have friends you can talk to? Sometimes that can be the first step to changing things.

I have four children and I respect them all equally and it's mutual. When the men (as it is in our family) demand it without giving it back they're not getting it. From the very start my children have known where they stand with me which they don't their dad or grandad. I am not going to demand that they respect someone who doesn't respect them. I have told my children when they've not been nice to someone they should have been, like I say, I'm bad cop here and I don't stand messing but equally I'm not going to allow my children to think that adults can treat them badly for the sake of it either.

I wouldn't call my daughter sweet either and I only said what she's done to earn it because you asked, she's above and beyond AFAIC, I feel like giving her a standing ovation most days. I respect my autistic 5yo who has struggled because adults have so little respect for her that they denied she has problems, so little respect for her that teachers leave her with pooh encrusted on her skin and her clothes smell so badly they need to be thrown away at the end of the day, should I allow her to think that all adults should be respected no matter how disgustingly they treat her? I respect my 1yo who is so physically disabled he can't sit up and the professionals faff about over whether he needs a chair to sit in in the bath so we don't risk drowning him. I respect my 2 year old when her grandad tells her she's disgusting because she got engrossed in the TV and forgot to use the potty. IME children do more to earn respect than most adults and when adults treat children with such little respect just because they're children I will show adults in front of children just how little respect they deserve!

I've had my fill in my life from my own childhood to watching my children grow, of wishy washy adults who go from being good cop to being plain nasty to children when good cop doesn't work that I have absolutely zero respect for it.

He seems to have an issue with physical boundaries full stop. Everywhere I sit, he'll move to follow me. If I'm playing with dd2 on the floor, he'll lay with his head on my lap. If I have eye contact and am within kissing distance he'll go in for a kiss, even if I'm eating/blowing my nose etc. It's hard to say you don't like things like this without it sounding like a personal attack.

I think you're confusing motherly love with respect confuddled.

Of course you think your kids are wonderful. It doesn't mean they 'deserve' respect more than other people though.

Every human being deserves respect. To teach your children otherwise is...odd.

Do you actually want to be with this man MrsHamster?

Of course, Green. He has many great features. It's just difficult when it feels so harmonious when he isn't here and fraught when he is.

I don't think they deserve more than other people, I just don't think that anyone of any age should respect people just because they're older regardless of how they're treated.

If your 5yo came home from nursery with pooh encrusted would you respect the people who care for them? Would you respect people who wrote to everyone they could telling them that you were lying about your child's disability and that they don't really have 9 separate consultants?

Would you respect your dad if he screamed at your toddler she was a nasty disgusting child because she got engrossed in the TV rather than going to do a wee on the potty?

Would you respect the decision of someone who took something away from your child just so someone said no to them for a change even though the reason no one said no was because they weren't asking for anything unreasonable?

If I don't respect the way my children are treated (and I'm hardly asking anything amazingly out of the ordinary) why should I demand my children respect it either?

confuddled I agree that children are entitled to respect too but disagree strongly that respect has to be earned as that implies a start from zero. I think everybody should start from a default position of respecting everybody else although that respect can be forfeited

My children were always respected, their views were always heard but they were taught to behave respectfully, politely and appropriately towards adults which is probably how they and we have all survived with relatively little pain through their teenage years and how they are now successful young adults as they relate well to other people. A 7-year old thinking she can behave like this does not bode well for the future IMO.

MrsHamsterCheeks

Not sure why you explained about the nap to me, I didn't say anything about a nap...

So thehoney, what happens when you call your older dc on the phone & tell them you want them home now & they stumble in an hour later, because they know when you say now, you don't mean it?

It is getting increasingly darker, increasingly later & they are walking home from a friends..

Is that acceptable too?

I need my girls to know that when I say now, I mean now (they will always call back & say 'can I have another minute to do x,y,z if they are into something). How can I keep them safe if they don't listen to me or constantly ignore me when I call them?

What if we were on a road & they were slightly ahead & I could see something they couldn't...if I shout STOP or COME BACK I need to know they will react NOW, not in a few minutes when something has had the potential to happen.

I really hate to say this but I feel that I have to despite the fact that I'm probably going to be crucified for it because one in ten children are sexually abused. Is there any possibility that your DP is abusing your daughter. I'm just broaching the possibility because it seems strange that a 7 year old is acting out against one person in particular.

it's grooming writ large for gods sake. So now he is grooming her?

Sorry, honey, do you know something we don't? Because I don't see grooming from what I have read here.

Bdrgrl, young children are not capable of lying, you have a really warped idea of reality.

Seriously? I have known many a seasoned liar younger than 7...

I used to lie a lot under the age of 8 (I can use that as a marker because my stepdad moved in & my world changed for the better). I used to tell my mum that my constant crying in my room, was me practising for a play (when in reality it was because she was vile to me, but I dared not tell her because she would laugh at me) I used to tell her I was going to a friends, when I was at the playground. I also told her it was my sister who got mud all over her new carpet because I knew she would be easier on my sister than she would on me.

So yes, Children ARE capable of lying!

My dad used to put my hair up using the hoover ... I didn't complain and accuse him of being a bad parent.

That is something my dad would have done. I could also imagine dh doing it.

MrsHamsterCheeks Do you have anything positive to say to your dp? Your post about him kissing you, wanting to be next to you, lying on your lap... if this is his way of being close & you are resenting it (which he will feel, btw) then it is not completely odd that he has started to lose himself in his phone. Perhaps he feels as if you are pushing him out & is reacting to that.

You seem to be very irritated by him trying to be close to you.

And with regards to the calling for meal convo you posted : he vetoed her demand (because that's what it was, she didn't ask) for more time & that should have been enough for her to come when he asked.

How many times would he have had to call her?

So, maybe he's not dad of the year, and it sounds like he could pitch in around the house a lot more. On the other hand though, he apparently took the younger child out for a few hours, then collected the other one from school and took her to the dentist. He also works. So, dad of the year probably not, but certainly not deadbeat dad of the year either. I think some of you have been a bit harsh there.

As for the original question, at her age it's not OK to speak to him like that really, and you really shouldn't undermine each other in front of her. By your own admission she's headstrong and willful, so all the more reason to define boundaries and support each other.

On the young children not lying point, that's total nonsense. A seven-year-old in our family had a minor falling out with a classmate, then proceeded to concoct a pretty elaborate account to her teacher about feeling incredibly unwell. Cue mum having to leave work and collect her, after which some suspicious inconsistencies arising from further questioning about her state led to the truth being eventually dragged out of her and fully admitted. Kids do lie. Sometimes pretty convincingly, apparently.

Caruthers.
"If the OP's DP can read this message....

Run for the hills lad it's just not worth it."

I agree with this, I also wonder (as it has been brought up) exactly who is in being abused in the relationship.

But what exactly is he doing on the phone?