to have let dd speak her mind to dp?

[MrsHamsterCheeks]

Dd is 7, dp has been around since she was one. Recently she's been really off with him - not wanting him to take her to school, hold her hand,read to her and so on. She'd rather miss out on doing something she enjoys than do it with him. He seems to just grate on her. For example, if her breakfast is ready I'd tell her so, if she didn't go to eat it within a minute I'd check she'd heard then leave her to it - her own fault if it goes cold, though 99% of the time she goes within a couple of minutes.

Dp on the other hand would tell her it's ready, then keeping saying 'come on, breakfast is ready' every twenty seconds until she gets annoyed or even try and lead her to the table. She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms but he just doesn't seem to get her anymore. By his method she usually leaves her breakfast then he'll offer her something else, so it isn't that I'm pandering to her - quite the opposite.

Today dp took our dd (14 months) out for a few hours as I had some work to catch up on. He then collected dd from school and took her to the dentist. When they returned I had cooked tea, I washed up, tidied, sorted out school bags, bathed the kids, did homework with dd, read stories with them both etc. He watched football and/or sat on his phone.

When he heard me telling dd2 that it was the last story I heard him creep upstairs and go and sit on dd1s bed as she'd been playing in her room. When dd2 and I entered dd1 glared at dp and said: 'i don't know why you're pretending you've been playing with me, mummy knows you've been downstairs on your phone you know.' He mumbled something about tidying up and she started ranting about how he hadn't tidied up, or washed up, or anything else because I'd done it as well as everything else while he played on his phone

She then proceeded to tell him that all he'd done that evening was upset dd2 by making her have tummy ache because all he'd fed her today was two lots of chips and a packet of crisps and by turning off the iPad quickly when he heard me coming downstairs so I wouldn't know he'd stuck dd2 in front of igglepiggle 'yet again.' I honestly never rant to or about dp so this tirade hasn't come from me.

Dp looked shocked and had a go at her for being a 'completely disrespectful little madame' and turned to me and said 'are you going to let her speak to me like this?' Dd2 was then sick so I had to sort her out but I could hear her and dp still bickering. I put dd1 to bed and said we'll talk in the morning as dd2 is still being sick and dp gone to work.

Aibu to have let her speak her mind? I feel it might do her good to get it off her chest as the resentment has obviously been building but then feel I'm undermining dp. However, everything she said was true so I can't tell her off for that. Maybe just speak to her about voicing her opinions more respectfully?? What do you think?

Not read the whole thread yet but she sounds like my similar aged daughter. She does notice everything that goes on in the house and will say. She doesn't stand messing or anything being unfair. My dad gets into rows with her because she tells him when he is being unfair and then he has to respond to her Both her dad and my dad feel they have to be unfair to her because generally she is a reasonable child so never has anyone say no to her so they say no knowing they are being unfair

Respect is earnt not a right, if my daughter challenges me she knows the response she will get - even if she's right - so the fact she gets a rise out of the fellas means she hasn't earnt their respect. I will not teach my children to respect someone just because they're older because a. adults need to learn to earn it and b. that way abuse lies (not saying that this is anyway the case here, but I believe in equipping children).

I also don't believe in teaching children that adults are always right.

So, confuddled, what exactly is it your DD has done to earn other people's respect?

If it has to be earned, what has she done to deserve any respect from your dad? Or is she entitled, and other people have to earn it?

Keep your DD safe - teach her that every human being is entitled to respect.

Have only skimmed through the whole thread. Ordinarily I would say she was disrespectful, and that parents should show a united front. However I do think what you described in your OP was shocking (him actually creeping upstairs to pretend to you that he'd been playing with your dd ) No wonder your dd was upset and annoyed, especially if he's often blatantly ignoring her. She's only 7, she can't be expected to manage that sort of treatment diplomatically. Personally I would find it impossible to defend what he did in front of your dd.
I think your dd's outburst is all to do with your family dynamics (obviously). I don't think that "nipping this in the bud" siding with your dp and simply berating her for being rude in that situation would stave off future teenage problems!
However I do agree that if you let this situation go on as it is you are heading for trouble. You need to get to the bottom of his and her (and your) behaviour and maybe get some family counselling. (Though personally I'd LTB, but then again I'm an old cynic!)

i think I must be abnormal. I think respect should be given until it is proved it shouldn't. Not the other way around.

If you don't teach your child to be respectful to others, they can't truly understand that each of us is worthy of respect This is, I think, the best phrase I have ever read on Mumsnet.

You are claiming your daughter has a right to comment which has to be respected whilst simultaneously ignoring your DP's right to be treated with any respect at all.

I think, as others have said over and over again, if you allow this to continue your relationship with DP is doomed and your DD is not being set proper boundaries which could store up problems for the future for her and you

sillylass, you are mistaken.
There is ample literature on the subject, and it is simply not true that young children cannot lie- and no, not just confusing reality and fiction.

This isn't even a controversial statement. Children lie.

sillylas I think you'll find anything that isn't true is classed as a lie when the person knows it isn't true, whether it be expanding on the truth or telling white lies.

I again refer people to the immense number of child psych studies done on the matter.

A child aged 4... 'have you ate all those chocolates' 'no mummy' says the child with chocolate all around his/her face.

ha ha, nursey, that is exactly what I was thinking of...I was about five and I ate almost an entire can of icing, looked my mother straight in the eye and denied it...with half the can on my face.

My DSD used to eat butter, and she would draw little marks on the butter stick and tell her parents that it must have been a mouse!

And just tonight, DD lied to me about bouncing on the bed after I had told her not to...and she totally knows she was lying, and she admitted it and said sorry.

Guess we are all seriously disturbed!

brdgirl it was my brother that did it that made me remember. We had those little chocolate christmas baubles.

'Have you at those chocolates'

'No Nursey"

he says, with chocolate all around his mush and the little foil parts still hanging on the tree all suspicious

Absolutely dd would act in the same way for him as shedoes for me if he approached things in the way I do. I know many of you will see that as saying my way is better but it is better for dd to do what works and causes no upset for anyone. He really isn't strict, if anything he panders to dd most of the time. For example, if I go to wake her up I'll greet her as I enter the room, chat as I'm opening curtains, turning off nightlights, gathering uniform etc and she knows that the expectation is she's up by the time I'm done so she can come to my room to get ready with dd2 and I, and she fulfills that expectation. He'll go and sit and chat forten mins, bbeing distracted by her changing the subject when he asks her to get up and eventually end up lifting her out of bed! Other times (like breakfast and roadside etc) he demands immediate adherence so I can understand why it's confusing for her.

He's the same with dd2. He knows she hates having her face wiped but will get wipes before she finishes eating,she then stops eeating prematurely to cry about the wipes. She only doesn't mind water in her face if she does it, so I give her a pot to rinse out shampoo. I I need to help, I'll ask for the pot and say I need to help. Dd2 passes pot and all is fine. He'll either rinse himself with dd screaming or take the pot from her without a word when he feels like it and tell her off for trying to take it back. Yet if she snatches something, it's wrong

I spoke to him today. He said I am 'ocd' in my consistency which makes the kids resistant to any other way. I pointed out that no one else besides him has a problem with them. Between 5 when he returned from work and 8 when the kids went to bed I counted to make my point later and he checked his phone almost 30 times. He said I was exaggerating.

It's hard to speak to him without sounding extremely patronising. For example, I usually read to both dds at bedtime because he's usually on phone. If he decides every so often to try and play a part (usually if someone else is here or we're at mils) he will say to them: 'i will be reading to you tonight.' Automatically they both disagree. If he phrased it: 'would you like me to read to you tonight?' they'd probably say yes.

I'm not clear what this horrendous"lie" the bloke told was. From my reading of the post he didn't lie at all, he came upstairs and the girl said he was pretending to have been playing with her, despite him not having mentioned this. She was putting words into his mouth. She also said he'd lied when he said he'd been tidying despite her being upstairs so having no idea what he's been up to downstairs. It all sounds very dysfunctional but I don't see signs of child abuse here. Kids can not like being with a particular adult (particularly one who is strict with them) without them being abused by them.
This relationship is doomed.

Well she isn't nasty for a start. She doesn't stop someone from playing with/ doing something for the sake of it like her father and grandfather. No, that doesn't deserve respect! If someone asks you something reasonable and the only reason you can think to say no is you haven't said no in long enough, you don't deserve it respect.

She's the most caring, considerate person I know. Incredibly fair and just. She asked to take a packet of sweets into school for a boy in her violin class because he wasn't given a sweet by the violin teacher for not having his violin which he said wasn't his fault (it was quite obvious to me from what he said the child was in foster care, although she wouldn't know that) and I had given her some when it was my fault she didn't have her violin. When a boy in her class broke her arm her only concern was what was wrong in the boys life that he was doing that. Another bullying incident she made decorated notes for the child to tell them that she would always be there to be their friend - not because she was trying to win friends but because she saw that something must be wrong for him. She was only 5 at the time. When her baby sister had gastro she sat up all night rubbing her back, fetching clean towels and talking softly to her (I did try to get her to go to bed, but she refused and thought I was telling her off). When she was in a bad car crash she talked gently to her baby brother and rubbed his tummy whilst her aunt freaked out in the passenger seat and wouldn't pick him up, my daughter was injured and still in pain almost a year later, it took a long time for her to admit how much pain she was in and how scared she was because she was more concerned her brother was scared. She has the most amazing diplomatic skills I've ever seen! She could praise anyone for anything and you would hardly notice she'd done it. I could honestly go on listing how thoughtful and considerate she is.

I have more respect for that child than I do anyone else in the world because she deserves it.

Then, I'd never expect a child to earn respect, they don't ask to be here, anyone can have sex, doesn't give you the right to demand respect whilst treating a child disrespectfully!

OP do you not feel that maybe your DD is a bit young to be worrying about this though? She's only 7 no matter how headstrong or intelligent she is.

I would have a quiet word to her about not feeling like she has to defend you or worry about whether your DP is pulling his weight. That you will deal with it and she can be a kid.

You can then tackle the problems in your relationship.

None of us ask to be here.

OP I can't help but feel you're just undermining how he's parenting. Children should be able to recognise that there's differences between mum and dad.

My dad used to put my hair up using the hoover I didn't complain and accuse him of being a bad parent.

Not read the full thread, but a 7 year talking like that has some serious issues.

I believe children should be listened to.

Checking his phone 30 times sounds OTT, but I keep mine on silent now and then so check it for family texts, thankfully my husband doesn't keep count. He's been on the laptop all evening as we watched TV. If his phone stuff is affecting your relationship then I'd discuss it but does he have any hobbies otherwise? My husband will go out for all day cycle rides (and I also have active hobbies). Is looking at your phone now and then whilst supervising the kids that bad? If it's got worse recently I'd be looking into why.
If you criticise his way of doing all the parenting tasks you'll just end up doing them all yourself.

confuddled, you have missed my point.
It's wonderful that your DD is so sweet....but even if she weren't, she'd deserve respect. You are right not to demand that she 'earn' it.

But wrong to think that only applies to your wonderful daughter.

At what age do people have to start 'earning' it, in your world? And what constitutes 'earning' it? Can not a person make mistakes in one area, and be a hero in another, and still be entitled to respect as a human being?

No wonder people are so horrid to each other, if they're being taught that others are so undeserving as a default position.

MrsHamsterCheeks - it all sounds so familiar! I am definitely bad cop around here - and my friend's children know it too. When I say "this is how it is" the kids run to do it because they know that's how it will happen. When OH says it they don't do it because they know he is too soft and my dad is (and was with us) exactly the same! At the same time they both blame me and Mum (who I learnt bad cop from) for the fact the children don't respond to them. If you don't follow through then they will mess about. If you're unfair to them they will mess about. Kids need to know where they stand.

She doesn't worry about it, my cat, she just got annoyed that he says he'll do/has done things and doesn't/hasn't. With the activity he watched - it was the only one he's ever seen and she's been doing it for three years. She specifically asked him to watch, yet he used his phone throughout. That's different to a parent who watches every week and sometimes uses their phone.

When dd2 and I entered her bedroom he picked up a toy and raised an eyebrow as if to say 'look what she's got me playing with.' Thats why she told him not to bother pretending.

What's he actually doing on his phone? Loads of people surf the internet/ use it to relax. Or are you worried he messaging someone? You sound very unhappy. But nothing will change unless you do something (other than criticise him... which will just make both of you feel miserable). You need to decide what you want to happen next. Eg Counselling/ time apart/ you spend more planned time with dd to find out what she's really thinking. etc Then make sure it happens.

If DP counted the times I'd picked up my phone well.. it'd be in the hundreds what with mumsnet and all sorts.

Nursey - when a house rule is we don't waste food, yet he offers to make her a second breakfast every time - how is that me undermining him? Should I wash out mydds sshampoo while she's screaming so I don't undermine him? It shouldn't be about 'whose way' it is that things are done. Whoever finds a way that achieves the desired result then why not both just do it that way so the kids know where they stand?

She's that late for breakfast when he asks her to come down he has to offer her a second breakfast