to have let dd speak her mind to dp?

[MrsHamsterCheeks]

Dd is 7, dp has been around since she was one. Recently she's been really off with him - not wanting him to take her to school, hold her hand,read to her and so on. She'd rather miss out on doing something she enjoys than do it with him. He seems to just grate on her. For example, if her breakfast is ready I'd tell her so, if she didn't go to eat it within a minute I'd check she'd heard then leave her to it - her own fault if it goes cold, though 99% of the time she goes within a couple of minutes.

Dp on the other hand would tell her it's ready, then keeping saying 'come on, breakfast is ready' every twenty seconds until she gets annoyed or even try and lead her to the table. She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms but he just doesn't seem to get her anymore. By his method she usually leaves her breakfast then he'll offer her something else, so it isn't that I'm pandering to her - quite the opposite.

Today dp took our dd (14 months) out for a few hours as I had some work to catch up on. He then collected dd from school and took her to the dentist. When they returned I had cooked tea, I washed up, tidied, sorted out school bags, bathed the kids, did homework with dd, read stories with them both etc. He watched football and/or sat on his phone.

When he heard me telling dd2 that it was the last story I heard him creep upstairs and go and sit on dd1s bed as she'd been playing in her room. When dd2 and I entered dd1 glared at dp and said: 'i don't know why you're pretending you've been playing with me, mummy knows you've been downstairs on your phone you know.' He mumbled something about tidying up and she started ranting about how he hadn't tidied up, or washed up, or anything else because I'd done it as well as everything else while he played on his phone

She then proceeded to tell him that all he'd done that evening was upset dd2 by making her have tummy ache because all he'd fed her today was two lots of chips and a packet of crisps and by turning off the iPad quickly when he heard me coming downstairs so I wouldn't know he'd stuck dd2 in front of igglepiggle 'yet again.' I honestly never rant to or about dp so this tirade hasn't come from me.

Dp looked shocked and had a go at her for being a 'completely disrespectful little madame' and turned to me and said 'are you going to let her speak to me like this?' Dd2 was then sick so I had to sort her out but I could hear her and dp still bickering. I put dd1 to bed and said we'll talk in the morning as dd2 is still being sick and dp gone to work.

Aibu to have let her speak her mind? I feel it might do her good to get it off her chest as the resentment has obviously been building but then feel I'm undermining dp. However, everything she said was true so I can't tell her off for that. Maybe just speak to her about voicing her opinions more respectfully?? What do you think?

There's a lot of projecting going on in this thread.

Fortunately children in the main do as they are told by their parents, but at least I now know where children who do as they please come from.

And my children can and do question me and dh and our decisions, but we have done our best to teach them that they are far more likely to get a positive response if they do so politely. I think that is an important life lesson - do we want a world full of adults who think that ranting rudely at other people is a good way to get things done?

And like it or not, there are people in authority over us, and ranting rudely at them isn't a good idea, and can get us into real trouble. If, for example, you are stopped by the police for having a failed brake light, and you get angry with them for stopping you, and rant at them, they could decide to take a long hard look at your car, searching for other faults to do you for, but if you are polite and cooperative, you are far more likely to get sent on your way with a warning. The drunken reveller who heeds the policeman's warning to take themselves off home pronto is going to wake up with a hangover. The drunken reveller who goes off at the policeman, ranting, swearing and refusing to do as they are told, may well wake up in the morning win the same hangover, but in a police cell.

I once reversed into another lady's car in the car park, and she saw me do it and came over, quite cross (understandably). I apologised instantly and fully, and went with her to check for any damage. Thankfully there was none, and after another apology from me, we went our separate ways. Had I been arsy and defensive, she could have insisted on taking my details, and it could have got nasty.

sdtg - that's what the OP says she does - she phrases it more in a time to get up now way than a 'get up now!' military order style just like you and her daughter does it just like your children did.

and there is a difference between being brought up to be respectful and have manners and be cooperative and polite etc and some of the sentiments that have been expressed on this thread about doing as your told immediately and without question and children never having the right to comment on adults behaviour or treatment of them and nothing that goes on in the house being any of their business.

things are being painted in pantomime reliefs.

why are we making stawmen? she doesn't rant rudely at people in authority - she doesn't make a habit of being rude or talking to anyone like this and i'm sure if she did the OP would be horrified. this is once in a specific context after a long build up by the sounds of it. that's hardly on a par with being a rude and disrespectful child doomed for life and indicative of permissive parenting.

oh and i could come back at that dig by saying yes and now i know where all the good apathetic little drones who will watch people dying after having disability benefits removed whilst politicians give backhanders to each other and their mates come from. it's not their place to question authority after all. just keep your head down and do as your told even when it's killing people.

but that would be silly.

the definition of madness isn't it coldlight?

Honey I haven't ever woken her up to 'get out of bed' or even 'you need to be getting out of bed'
It is more something I may feel forced to say after she has hit snooze on her alarm clock for the 3rd or 4th time!
Exactly what SDT said...!
It isn't about pandering... it is all about managing behaviour -
For DD1 you can come up with all sorts of punishments/rewards, consequences etc etc. If she gets into a certain mindset she won't budge...she isn't thinking straight, she doesn't care about the consequences. And I do (and always have) follow through - I won't threaten something and not do it.
Like Anothermrssmith - I am like that, I understand it and use my understanding to manage my DD...
My parent's didn't understand me and I gave them all kinds of problems as a teen...fingers crossed I am doing a better job - only time will tell
(And I am very respectful, diplomatic etc as an adult - I control it - at least most of the time )

As I thought...projecting.

As for your hyperbole?

Just wow!

yep - and utterly insecure parenting imo.

why so threatened by a child taking a couple of minutes to come and eat their breakfast?

i couldn't live like that.

I had a similar issue with my dss when he was 8 but it was at his stepdad. His mum didnt do anything time and time again until dss felt he was able to say whatever he wanted with no consequence. He tried it with me and i sat him down and explained he cannot speak to adults like that. I would suggest you need to put a united front regardless of if she is is right or wrong. Its an adults conversation a child should not be encouraged to participate in it.

imagine if every transaction with your child was not about achieving a result but about establishing dominance?

Maybe because it has a feeling of 'my time is more important than yours, so I will wander down to breakfast when I am good and ready' about it, TheHoneyBadger. Or maybe because it is rude to the person who has made the meal, as I said earlier. If I have spent an hour cooking a nice meal (OK, this doesn't apply so much to breakfast, I accept), I want people to come promptly when I call them - that is respectful to me and to the work I have put in.

And if you want the whole family to eat together, do you make everyone else wait for the dilatory one, with their food cooling in front of them, or do,you all start eating, which somewhat defeats the 'eating together as a family' thing - and also gives the impression that the family's time is less important than the dilatory one's - 'you can all wait for me'.

Breakfast can often be a time-pressured meal - there's a lot to get done in the morning, and it isn't OK for one member of the family to naff around doing things they fancy, instead of getting on with the things that need to be done (like breakfast). Plus it has a knock-on effect - she wanders down when she's ready, and that holds up whoever has to clear up after breakfast - usually a parent, who will probably have many other things to get done in the short time available in the morning. If you are the adult trying to keep all the plates spinning, and one person is throwing the whole thing out of whack by doing things in their own sweet time, it's not unreasonable to find that annoying.

Children try to push boundaries. They will do so in a number of ways. Even something as little as waiting a few minutes after you've called. There are boundaries for a reason, it's not a power play between parent and child. If I tell my child to do something and they have a valid reason why it's wrong, then I would expect them to broach it politely or not at all. if they started 'ranting' at me there'd be a big issue. Or if they simply didn't do as I said because 'children should question authority' then there'd be consequences.

My mum was exactly the same as me. Ive not turned into some meek and mild adult who can't stand up for herself or question something that's wrong. Neither are the thousands of other people brought up this way. A lot of armchair psychology going on here.

it didn't sound to me like they all sat down for breakfast together. i personally don't eat breakfast and ds is welcome to graze over his as long as he likes really as we are really early risers and i like calm and easy in the morning.

as you say breakfast doesn't take an hour to make and the OP has said it takes her dd a couple of minutes which is hardly earth shattering unless you are massively disorganised, getting up too late and leaving making breakfast till the last possible minute.

presumably you choose to cook dinner and choose an hour long to prepare meal? how do you respond if someone isn't hungry or doesn't like it out of curiousity?

I agree SDT

I would expect my daughter to come down when asked, not grace us with her presence when she felt like it.

all this 'my children must do as i say instantly or there will be consequences' is quite disturbing reading for me. sounds really threatening and aggressive.

If you are the one in charge of making sure everyone is up, making breakfast, clearing up breakfast, getting uniform washed and ready, making pack lunches, tidying up, locking up and leaving on time, getting to school by 9am, then I'm sorry, but you are the one making the rules.

And if you're the one benefiting from all this hard work, whether you are an adult or a child, then the least you can do is help by being prompt and thoughtful.

And that is about having respect, and appreciation.

Anyone in my family is more than welcome to do their own thing in their own time, but I won't be facilitating it.

No it's not about doing it instantly, it's about why they'd chose not to do it when I ask in the first place. It's the reasoning as to why they would chose not to.

TheHoneyBadger maybe it sounds that way to you because you have some issues around this subject matter?

I and countless other people are happy and well adjusted, after being raised in the way you so object to.

Out of curiosity, why are you so dead set that this way of parenting must be aggressive, insecure and wrong?

I've only skimmed the thread but i'm shocked by the way some people seem to think this behaviour is acceptable.

When I call the children to the table, I expect them to come to the table. Now. Not in two minutes or three minutes, or whenever they decide to turn up. Now.

If ds1 (age 6) spoke to either dh or I the way your dd spoke to her s dad, he'd be spending 30 minutes in his room to calm down and have a think and then be having a serious talking to about respect.

I don't shout at my children, nor do I speak to them rudely. I expect the same respect back.