to have let dd speak her mind to dp?

[MrsHamsterCheeks]

Dd is 7, dp has been around since she was one. Recently she's been really off with him - not wanting him to take her to school, hold her hand,read to her and so on. She'd rather miss out on doing something she enjoys than do it with him. He seems to just grate on her. For example, if her breakfast is ready I'd tell her so, if she didn't go to eat it within a minute I'd check she'd heard then leave her to it - her own fault if it goes cold, though 99% of the time she goes within a couple of minutes.

Dp on the other hand would tell her it's ready, then keeping saying 'come on, breakfast is ready' every twenty seconds until she gets annoyed or even try and lead her to the table. She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms but he just doesn't seem to get her anymore. By his method she usually leaves her breakfast then he'll offer her something else, so it isn't that I'm pandering to her - quite the opposite.

Today dp took our dd (14 months) out for a few hours as I had some work to catch up on. He then collected dd from school and took her to the dentist. When they returned I had cooked tea, I washed up, tidied, sorted out school bags, bathed the kids, did homework with dd, read stories with them both etc. He watched football and/or sat on his phone.

When he heard me telling dd2 that it was the last story I heard him creep upstairs and go and sit on dd1s bed as she'd been playing in her room. When dd2 and I entered dd1 glared at dp and said: 'i don't know why you're pretending you've been playing with me, mummy knows you've been downstairs on your phone you know.' He mumbled something about tidying up and she started ranting about how he hadn't tidied up, or washed up, or anything else because I'd done it as well as everything else while he played on his phone

She then proceeded to tell him that all he'd done that evening was upset dd2 by making her have tummy ache because all he'd fed her today was two lots of chips and a packet of crisps and by turning off the iPad quickly when he heard me coming downstairs so I wouldn't know he'd stuck dd2 in front of igglepiggle 'yet again.' I honestly never rant to or about dp so this tirade hasn't come from me.

Dp looked shocked and had a go at her for being a 'completely disrespectful little madame' and turned to me and said 'are you going to let her speak to me like this?' Dd2 was then sick so I had to sort her out but I could hear her and dp still bickering. I put dd1 to bed and said we'll talk in the morning as dd2 is still being sick and dp gone to work.

Aibu to have let her speak her mind? I feel it might do her good to get it off her chest as the resentment has obviously been building but then feel I'm undermining dp. However, everything she said was true so I can't tell her off for that. Maybe just speak to her about voicing her opinions more respectfully?? What do you think?

Hackmum - that's kind of my point. Whether the daughter should/shouldn't have spoken up is not the biggest issue, nor is the silly breakfast issue. The main issue is whether there us a future for DP in this family. If that's what they both want, then some serious discussions and changes need to occur.

lol even as a teacher i didn't expect children to jump to attention the second i spoke - i'd have had a rude awakening if i did. right, finish what you're doing, stop talking, come on, ok - i need you to pay attention. right! what i'd like you to do in a minute is...

apart from which a child's HOME is somewhat different from school surely? they are not one of 30 to be managed by an adult with seven learning objectives to get through in an hour in an overcramped classroom filled with children with disparate needs and ability levels. they're children, at home, living.

I clearly need tips on how to get my children to respond the instant I ask them to!!

no you definitely don't wishing you're raising human beings not army cadets.

Bee - don't be deliberately obtuse please.

I'm not saying, and I'm sure HoneyBadger isn't either, that children should do what they want and disregard meal times or not listen to their parents.

We're saying, there is no need to do in military, intolerant, angry, impatient fashion. It DOESN'T WORK. You just get angry parents and angry children. Choose battles, find ways to get them to do things that doesn't involve merely telling them or shouting at them repeatedly!

and a couple of minutes of finishing off what she's doing before coming and eating her breakfast is NOT worth a battle. i'd be mighty pissed off if someone kept shouting at me to come eat my breakfast when i'd heard them the first time and was trying to finish getting dressed/going to the loo/packing my school bag/reading a page. kids are allowed a little dignity and space too. it's a couple of minutes ffs. those of you who are saying they find that the height of rudeness and wouldn't allow their kids two minutes to get to the table are shoring up some massive issues for adolescence imo. either that or raising human beings who will have zero respect and value for their own needs and no ability to set boundaries.

My DH does most of the housework in our home, whilst I use my laptop or phone.

If either of my DSSs felt they had a right to comment DH would be on them like a tonne of bricks. It's rude and disrespectful.

How you manage your adult relationship and living situation is nothing to do with your DD. you do need to sort it out with DH.

(Fwiw, before I get flamed I work in a very high pressure job and am out of the country most weeks, DH is a stay at home dad and we've split the chores as suits us both).

do you ignore the children, not get involved when one of them is vomiting, refuse to put your phone down and pay attention to a child who is asking you to etc as well mutton? how about sneaking into your child's room and pretending you've been playing with them and expecting them to play along?

unless the answer to all the q's above is YES then it's hardly a equable comparison.

And respect does not "have to be earnt", you should show respect to everyone you come into contact with as a matter of course.

Anything is else is just bad manners.

Sigh

My set up is quite spookily similar to yours Mutton. I too am often on my phone.

I couldn't agree less with your attitude though.

And when one of dds has complained I'm on my phone too much I actually listen because I care about them. And they are right. If my dh 'came down on them like a tonne of bricks', I'd say 'Thanks dh, but actually dd has a point about that'.

Of course respect has to be earned!!!!!!!

Should children respect a selfish, liar of a stepfather? Why?

Respect is as much a matter of actions as feeling. Children may not feel genuine respect for someone (even when they should), but they can still be expected to act respectfully.

Children have not yet developed the critical thinking - and most importantly, lack the experience - to really understand the choices that adults have to make or the context of adult actions. A 7-year-old (or a 16-year-old) saying "I won't respect my step-parent/teacher/neighbour because s/he hasn't earned my respect" is displaying their immaturity and narcissism - totally normal - but not to be confused with a rational judgement.

I would expect my DC/DSC to treat every adult they meet - from the homeless woman on the corner to Granddad the veteran - with respect. If Granddad does something they don't like, they can speak to us about it, but they certainly cannot give him a telling off.

The ability to set boundaries is very important for children.

But so is the ability to recognise and observe boundaries. Part of a package...

brdgrl

Great post. Yes I agree to a large extent and I agree that children should start from a default position acting respectfully.

But I'd add that respecting adults is also a instinctual thing. So a 7 year old not feeling respect towards an adult is their gut instinct working - and working very well. If that tips into acting disprectfully - sometimes that is a cry for help.

Sometimes, yes.
But I think also 'acting disrespectfully' is a learned behaviour. That kids can develop a pattern of disrespect when encouraged by a parent.

I don't know if the OP's case is a cry for help, or a learned behaviour, or a combination of both...I can have my suspicions, but obviously there is no way to know because we only have part of the story. If there is a 'cause', I think OP should be addressing that (through talking to her DD, or addressing the obvious issues between herself and her DP, or through counseling, or all of the above) - but also immediately addressing the 'symptoms' by letting her DD know that what she did wasn't actually OK.

The awful thing is that there are people on this thread basically saying that teaching a child to display respect is about protecting the child from abuse or mistreatment. But you can't teach a child that other people have to 'earn' respect, AND simultaneously teach them that their own souls and their own bodies are entitled, automatically, to be respected.

If you don't teach your child to be respectful to others, they can't truly understand that each of us is worthy of respect, and that makes them ripe for victimization.

Gosh OP, your DP's life sounds fun.

I can't believe how so many posters are concentrating on DD's apparent rudeness, rather than DP's lying and fecklessness. DD has clearly had a gut's full of the way he operates. Are we advocating that she needs to internalise this?

DD has a right to an opinion. OP now knows what is going on when she is absent. What if DD was reporting him physically abusing one or both kids? Is that "rude" too?

What if DD was reporting him physically abusing one or both kids? Is that "rude" too?

Of course not, that's a totally specious question. She wasn't 'reporting' anything.

Badger, you've distorted this. 14 month old was sick AFTER the confrontation.
Dp had said that he was tidying up downstairs whilst everyone was upstairs after dd had accused him of doing nothing. Seeing as all the ladies were upstairs, who is to say that he didn't tidy. DD is is bright but I don't know if she has x-ray vision.
And if dd was at school all day how would she have known what dp had fed the baby?
Also, yes OP had been at work all day and I'm hoping baby was ok after being poorly btw. What if baby wasn't poorly? OP would have had the evening to herself and she wouldn't have had any chores to do as she had already done them so she could flop in front of the tv, where as dp went to work. IF this happens everyday it could be that he is shattered?
I'm just trying to see this from every angle. Nobody knows exactly what the dp did all day because he hasn't put across his side and if the dd is so anti him at the moment she will only see the negative.

I think it's crazy that that huge judgement is being passed on the basis of a 7 year old. Even in a court of law, all parties are able to put their side across! Even if they plead guilty!

Anyway, the general feeling is that you and your dp need to have a chat about the very least the ways the chores are split. But expand it that chat to include how your family dynamic works and make sure there is agreement, you'll end up in the same situation again.

Looking back at the OP, I see it refers to the dd 'ranting' at the dp - how is that not rude? If the dp had 'ranted' at the dd or the OP, I am sure he wouldn't have been condemned out of hand.

When my dses were 7, they wouldn't have dreamt of 'ranting' at an adult - even if they felt the adult was entirely in the wrong. But that doesn't mean they weren't listened to, and heard, when they needed to tell us something.

I would also like to know how the dd 'knew' what her younger sibling had been fed, when she'd been at school all day, or what the dp was doing downstairs when she was in her room upstairs. Maybe she was wrong, or exaggerating.

that's rather the point sdtg - she hasn't been listened to and heard after repeated better ways of saying it and attempts to get him to 'hear' her hence the end point of it all coming out in an angry gush.

that really is the point - that for a child to get to that point it has to have been ignored and ignored and ignored and become more and more convinced that the person doesn't give a shit about them and isn't even remotely engaged.

presumably yours at 7 were never pushed to that point because you did 'hear' and listen to them when they told you something rather than just totally ignoring them and lying about it in their face.

I quite agree Badger. So if the dd has been going on and on and hasn't been listened and the OP feels she should have been, why did she step up sooner, rather than allow it to get to this stage?
Not saying this happened btw, just not understanding the defence in what your saying.

i was defending the dds behaviour.

the shit behaviour the dd has putting up with i lay squarely at the person whose been dealing it to her - not the other person he treats like shit.

yes, the OP needs to come up with a way to deal with this and to improve the way her and her dd are treated but she doesn't need a 'defense' and she is not to blame for his behaviour.

If I had spoken to any of my parents (mum, dad, 2 step parents) like that, justified or not, or ignored them when they called me for a meal, I would be for the high jump. I am from the generation where you respected adults & if you had a problem you spoke to them calmly about it. It wasn't my place to rant at anyone.

I knew it wasn't up to me to get into my parents personal relationships & if I had, I would have been told to mind my own business.

His laziness is YOUR issue to address, not hers.

What he fed dd2 is no concern of dd1.
What he does when he is home (phone etc) is no concern of hers.
How he chooses to entertain dd2 is of no concern to dd1.
Who does the washing up/tidying up/whatever is of no concern of hers.

She has tried broaching it before more politely and has been ignored, I can understand why that's frustrating.

Why is she broaching anything?

These are parental issues. To be discussed by the adults in the house. Not a 7yr old kid. He is an adult, it is not up to a child to 'tell off' (which is what it sounds like written here) an adult.

my 'deeply ineffectual parenting' isn't so bad if it produces a child who's two years ahead at school, head of several sports teams, received a glowing report from school, has lots of friends etc.

And this is the issue. I know one of these children & she also thinks that it is her place to tell her parents how to behave. They also allow it because "she is so smart, she doesn't realise she isn't supposed to talk to adult like that because she feels on a par with them"

Urgh.