to have let dd speak her mind to dp?

[MrsHamsterCheeks]

Dd is 7, dp has been around since she was one. Recently she's been really off with him - not wanting him to take her to school, hold her hand,read to her and so on. She'd rather miss out on doing something she enjoys than do it with him. He seems to just grate on her. For example, if her breakfast is ready I'd tell her so, if she didn't go to eat it within a minute I'd check she'd heard then leave her to it - her own fault if it goes cold, though 99% of the time she goes within a couple of minutes.

Dp on the other hand would tell her it's ready, then keeping saying 'come on, breakfast is ready' every twenty seconds until she gets annoyed or even try and lead her to the table. She is very headstrong and likes to do things on her own terms but he just doesn't seem to get her anymore. By his method she usually leaves her breakfast then he'll offer her something else, so it isn't that I'm pandering to her - quite the opposite.

Today dp took our dd (14 months) out for a few hours as I had some work to catch up on. He then collected dd from school and took her to the dentist. When they returned I had cooked tea, I washed up, tidied, sorted out school bags, bathed the kids, did homework with dd, read stories with them both etc. He watched football and/or sat on his phone.

When he heard me telling dd2 that it was the last story I heard him creep upstairs and go and sit on dd1s bed as she'd been playing in her room. When dd2 and I entered dd1 glared at dp and said: 'i don't know why you're pretending you've been playing with me, mummy knows you've been downstairs on your phone you know.' He mumbled something about tidying up and she started ranting about how he hadn't tidied up, or washed up, or anything else because I'd done it as well as everything else while he played on his phone

She then proceeded to tell him that all he'd done that evening was upset dd2 by making her have tummy ache because all he'd fed her today was two lots of chips and a packet of crisps and by turning off the iPad quickly when he heard me coming downstairs so I wouldn't know he'd stuck dd2 in front of igglepiggle 'yet again.' I honestly never rant to or about dp so this tirade hasn't come from me.

Dp looked shocked and had a go at her for being a 'completely disrespectful little madame' and turned to me and said 'are you going to let her speak to me like this?' Dd2 was then sick so I had to sort her out but I could hear her and dp still bickering. I put dd1 to bed and said we'll talk in the morning as dd2 is still being sick and dp gone to work.

Aibu to have let her speak her mind? I feel it might do her good to get it off her chest as the resentment has obviously been building but then feel I'm undermining dp. However, everything she said was true so I can't tell her off for that. Maybe just speak to her about voicing her opinions more respectfully?? What do you think?

I really don't think there's any point in offering more advice or comment here. OP is not listening to the one thing everyone has agreed on which is that she should sort out her partner's behaviour with him directly. She has ignore that so either doesn't want to listen, or is being deliberately contrary for reasons I can't possibly fathom, though I think WannaBe has probably got close to them.

TheHoneyBadger - of course it is not just the OP's responsibility, but the dd seems to be very unwilling to listen to the OP's dp at the moment, so the OP does have to take a larger role at the moment.

It sounds as if the dd was rude and disrespectful - why is it odd of me to expect her parent to do something about? I think when a situation like this arises, it needs to be dealt with at once, or at least, promptly, otherwise the child takes away the message that their behaviour was OK.

It doesn't sound like the parenting relationship with the OP's dp and dd is working at the moment - in the longer term, the OP is going to have to decide what to do about that, but whatever she decides, she doesn't want to raise a child who thinks it is OK to be that rude and disrespectful to adults - well, I wouldn't want to, certainly.

I've know idea who's at fault, you or your DP. Tbh, you both sound like a nightmare - him lazy and ineffectual, you critical and undermining.

But I am SHOCKED that you seem to revel in the fact your DD gave your DP a talking to. You actually seem to be pleased that, as a result of you and your DPs shit relationship, your DD has felt she is justified in getting involved.

If I were you, I would feel terrible about this.

FWIW if I were you I would have told my DD that it wasn't her place to criticise her parent in such a way, and assured her that this was an issue for ME and DP to sort out, but that I understood she was upset. I then would have told DP (privately) that the situation couldnt continue and things had to change.

Using your child as a conduit for you to berate your partner is shocking....just shocking!

the alternative message to take away is, 'it is ok for men to treat you poorly, lie and involve you in their lies, have you keep secrets about their behaviour, not call them on treating you shittily and if you call them on any of it you will be punished'.

not to mention the message - men are not accountable for their own actions and don't have any responsibility to maintain and work on a relationship, that's women's work so don't bother expecting any engagement from a man and don't bother telling him when you're unhappy with the relationship because it's not his problem and you should do all of the emotional and relationship work.

none of this shit comes from nowhere. it's not genetically imprinted in women, it is taught.

actually i think given that OP is being called 'undermining' amongst other things her best bet would be to stay out of it eg. 'you need to talk to him about this', 'you need to talk to her about this'. it is not her responsibility to do his relationship work. he needs to work this out with his daughter and her mother definitely doesn't need to undermine her trust in her as well by minimising her feelings and being the smoother over-er rather than allowing them to sort it out.

Good point Little

DP lied, DD said he was lying, then DP tried to lie again.

Really, she can't criticise that? She'll be told all the time at home and school not to lie, but she can't call out an adult who's lying?

incidentally can you imagine what the responses would be if the parents genders were reversed? re: my wife was sat on her phone ignoring all of us, had fed the baby nothing but chips all day, i was hoovering with the baby on my hip and she still wouldn't pay attention to our older daughter, then i was doing the baths and everything and she was still sat on her phone and then pretended she'd been in with dd and dd told me she was lying and angrily expressed that she never does anything and i do all the work, meanwhile i was dealing with the baby vomiting from the shit food she'd fed it all day and i heard, 'are YOU going to LET her speak to me like that?'.

christ you'd want her burnt at the stake.

I would have made exaxtly the same comments, if the genders were reversed, *TheHoneyBadger. I don't think it is acceptable for any parent to allow a child to speak to another adult that way.

I am not saying that what is going on in the relationship is right or good - on the contrary, it sounds as if it is all going badly wrong - but I don't think that makes it OK for a child to speak so rudely to an adult, and that is my answer to the question that the OP posed in her thread title.

I genuinely think that ensuring the parenting issues - which including lying to DD, involving DD in lies, feeding the younger child food which makes her ill, ignoring both DCs while in sole care (to the point where he is not aware of what is going on) and generally acting in a way that makes her feel rejected - are a hell of a lot more urgent than her speaking to him in a disrespectful way. God, I am so grateful I had a mum who thought children were worth listening to.

• Living with a parent (or parent figure) who is supposed to love you but barely acknowledges your existence is damaging. I know.

• Being in the sole care of an adult who's attention is focused on a game/tv programme/whatever to the extent where they are not sure of what you are doing & they neglect basic needs like appropriate food is unsafe. My mum still shudders when she thinks that her 4&7 year old were out wandering round the town centre when she thought they were at home with dad.

*Being ignored when you calmly (as she had done in the past) raise things that are upsetting you teaches you terrible lessons about your place in life & what you should expect.

*Ignoring a child raising concerns and focusing on how they raise them, teaches them not to tell you things. What if next time what the child wants to say is that an adult you know well touched them inappropriately?

*Part of being a teenager is figuring out who you are going to be as an adult and independent of your parents. As a teen, the friends I had who were 'nightmare teens' were the ones who had a parental relationship based on 'I'm the adult, I deserve respect and I am always right; you're the child, I do not have to respect you and if you disagree with me, you're wrong.' Those, like me, who had a relationship based on mutual respect, where we felt listened to & where our parents explained why we shouldn't do something rather than issuing orders were the ones who continued to respect the rules - because the rules made sense to us.

She sounds smart. Your DP loafs around doing nothing, feeds your children chips an sticks them in front of IPads, then pretends to have done more with them. She clearly sees him for the loser he is. She wasn't being rude, she was being honest, and having such a man around the house is an awful example for her.

These are two separate issues. She spoke to your DP in a disrepectful way. Whether or not she was speaking the truth is not the point, she didn't go about it the right way. If my child spoke to me like that I would not be happy.

If you agree that what she said was the truth then you need to raise the points re housework/phone usage with your DP yourself not let a 7 year old girl be your mouthpiece.

littletabby - agree. that's my experience too. relationships that were built on nothing other than 'i'm the adult, you're a child, me big, you small' unsurprisingly go to shit when the child isn't that small anymore and has to try and find their own identity and has to shake that off first. also unsurprisingly once that 'child' is an adult there is NO relationship. me big you small doesn't mutate into an adult relationship of love and respect and mutual concern etc.

prison inmates don't go back and visit their wardens.

Disagree with the majority here - I don't think children should respect adults just because they are adults. Respect has to be earned.

I think it would be a very good idea though if your dp is prepared to spend some special time with dd each week, doing something she enjoys, to try to rebuild their relationship. I wouldn't make that optional for her.

I think she needs to deal with what was said, and how it was said separately. I'm certainly not saying that the things he is doing are OK, or that she should refuse to listen to her child, but there's nothing wrong with telling her that there is a right way and a wrong way to raise issues like this.

I'm fully aware you said she would rather not do something than do it with him. I did read the OP. However my advice still stands that if you have all 3'of you playing games together and phones are off - needing cooperation from your DD and DP it may help bring you all together.

With all due respect...that is tosh in my opinion.

I was raised to respect adults and certainly heard 'because I'm the adult, you are a child' more than once.

I have the best and closest relationship with my parents now as an adult, and when I was a child.

But in regards to the op I'm not judging the child for being rude.

I am however judging the op who seems to be revelling in her daughter taking on the role of an adult and doing battle for her.

I don't think a child should be forced into a situation where they feel they have no other choice but to take charge of the situation by basically telling an adult how to behave. That should have been op.

your DP is the problem, not your DD. she is clever (maybe a tad outspoken!!). you need to deal with him first, not her

and talk to her, calmly, LISTEN, who is she so pissed off with him

I dont know OP, I always feel sorry for the step kids stuck in this scenario- put the kids first (easy to say)

Good lord, you all sound as bad as each other!

Your dd made me think of karen in outnumbered and how she struggled when starting secondary, especially the scene when she is being talked to by the head.

Your dp sounds lazy but there's not enough background info to tell if he is always like this or not. Dont blame him necessarily for being on phone during activity of dd, it would be boring if sat there for ages if a sport match.

you sound like your partner is your partner but not dds dad iyswim, perhaps this has affected his confidence and leads him and dd to have a poor relationship.

My dh would be on his phone all day unless directed. He actually appreciates being told what needs doing when (even tho this does my head in, so I save the grotty jobs for him). Is your dh one of these types?

So, the OP is being simultaneously criticised (usually by the same posters) for a) not giving her DP a talking-to for being so useless and crap b) undermining her DP by allowing her DD to criticise him?

And nobody sees the contradiction there?

Does it occur to anybody that maybe the reason she doesn't confront her DP about his behaviour is because she is trying her very best to maintain a harmonious family life and doesn't want to stir up trouble - to the extent that she carries on taking on far more than her fair share of childcare and housework.

The problem here is not the DD. It's not the OP. It's the DP. Stop the victim-blaming.

She sounds like the most precocious child ever. And you seem to be using her as your mouthpiece because you don't resolve the issues YOU have with your DP.

However, I'm with Pictish. Added to which the OP hasn't been back, HQ intervention?

I have a flexible mind - I can handle the 'contradiction'.

why are people saying, 'she should have been able to tell her mum'?

I'm puzzled by this, too! Well, maybe not that puzzled - it's okay for a girl to tell a woman about crappy male behaviour, but not remotely OK to tell him directly

Everything else you've said, too, HoneyBadger.

It is OK for her to tell him directly - but in a polite way.