To not understand why "friends" are abandoning a friend in need?

[runnermum1974]

My friend attempted suicide and did real serious damage to themselves.

Days after the attempt 3 of their close friends have said they are going their separate ways. They have given some reasons, but they are pretty lame - like they are not compatible, and deciding that now, after 5 years of friendship!!

I am not saying that they have to be friends or anything. But the timing is bloody awful.

I do not understand how friends can abandon a friend in need. Anyone can be a friend in the good times. The test of friendship comes in the hard times.

If anyone has a story about abandoning friendships when a friend is in a difficult place, then I will appreciate the insight.

AIBU to think it is unkind to leave a friend in need?

I think that for friendship to be real friendship both parties have to gain from the friendship and it has to be mutually supportive.
To me a relationship with someone who was always looking for me to support her and was never someone who could support me or who I could have fun with would not be a friendship. That's more a therapist/ counsellor relationship. Pretending that is what friendship is doesn't help.
Friendship isn't about true love or staying with someone til death you do part. I'd only have that sort of relationship with my kids, even my love for my husband is conditional on enjoying being with him.
Friendship should be a 2 way thing, you're meant to have fun with your friends.
Yes you'll support them through bad patches, but when their life is one nonstop bad patch then I think they stop being a friend to you if they don't enhance your life in any way.
The note sounds cruel though, I'd have just drifted away. Friends should just be a part of your life, their neediness shouldn't take over the rest of your life.

Yes, of course friendship should be a two way thing but there's nothing here to say that this person wasn't a good friend before she/he became ill.

Can you imagine the outrage on here if someone found out they had cancer and their 'friends' decided to send them a letter telling them they weren't going to be friends any more?

OP

The way your friends went about it wasn't a nice way to do it- at the very,very least they should have told you what was in the letter. They should have found a better way to do it. Although, if you'd said this from the start, others could have perhaps better understood your anger at the way it was handled.

That said, I'm not sure there is a "good way" or a "right time" to do it, so would have been upsetting for your friend anyway.

I still don't think we can judge the rights or wrongs of their motives for walking away- none of us know why. One day you might have to do the same, for the sake of your health or for the sake of your family or career- please bear that in mind when you judge others.

And you do sound incredibly judgemental- I understand your anger about the letter, they were certainly very wrong to ask you to give it your friend without telling you it's contents.

As to the rest, YABU. You haven't listened to a word that has been said by other people as to why they might have walked away. You are also at risk of romanticising this situation- you've found the true meaning of love, you'll be there for this friend no matter what etc etc. Please don't turn this into a personal crusade to save your friend. It wouldn't be healthy for either of you. You need to be here friend, her support and not her crutch. I'm not saying that's what you are doing now, but the language you use makes me think it's possible that this could happen.

One last point have you been friends for 5 years or friends since uni (I'm assuming you weren't all mature students)? Don't suppose it makes much difference to whether YABU/YANBU, but it is odd when stories start changing.

"They did announce they were stopping being friends, and by letter (that I handed to my friend, not knowing what they had collectively written). These women are 40 years old and we had all been friends since university."

IMO, 'since university' implies a friendship of 20 years in this context. But in the OP, you said "after 5 years of friendship". So could you please clarify, OP?

Why would they write a collective letter?
Why would they hand it to you to give to this person, rather than post it?
Why would you not know what was in it?

I'm wondering if the backstory is very different to the OPs perception of it. This is all imagination on my part, but I'm trying to make the pieces fit, IYSWIM. I wonder if the mutual friend (let's call them A), rather than having mental health issues, is just a great big drama queen/narcissist who has been sucking the life out of her companions for the last two years. Sensing that some of her audience friends were nearing the end of their tethers with her behaviour, A ups the ante with a fake suicide attempt which goes horribly wrong and ends up causing actual bodily harm, unexpectedly. The friends who were starting to see A as a drama queen/narcissist think 'fuck me, that takes a hammer to the camel's back' and back off at high speed. They might even think that without an audience, A will not feel like being quite so dramatic. Or they don't feel her attention-seeking should be 'rewarded' with attention since it might encourage A to further attempts. Or they realise that they aren't friends with A any more, and really haven't been for some time. Naturally they're going to discuss the event with each other and they realise that they all feel the same as each other about A. But what to do? A calls them up and cries to them on the phone, how can they just STOP this, because sitting there listening to A is horrible and they suspect it's doing A no good at all either. And so the collective letter is sent. Now, a collective letter is a very unusual thing. So unusual, my imagination is failing to come up with what was in it. OP has alluded to it's contents "(They have given some reasons, but they are pretty lame - like they are not compatible)" but I'm thinking there must be more to it but either A is not passing those bits on to the OP or the OP is failing to see the significance in what has been written. As to why they handed it to the OP to give to A - hmm, I wonder if they (in my imaginary scenario) see that the OP is still in thrall to A, and hope that by giving her the letter she will be present when A opens it, and may have her eyes opened by how they think A will react when she reads the letter? Clutching at straws here, really. But this collective letter/delivery via OP is very odd, and there MUST be a reason for it.

Regardless of my musings, OP clearly sees A as someone with mental health issues that she must support. And sorry OP, but you're being unnecessarily judgmental of your friends who are choosing otherwise. I think you should consider whether your unconditional support for A is actually to A's benefit. I suspect that your friends decided otherwise, and they might be right. You may need to step back and consider the big picture to see why they've come to that conclusion.

OP, the way you express yourself, you do seem to me to have a bit of a 'rescuer' mentality. Please, do try as a priority to protect your own mental health. A first-aider's first priority is to ensure they are not placing themselves in danger, as they are no use to the injured person if they themselves are injured in turn. Similarly, you will be of no use to your friend if you succumb to the strains you are likely to face supporting her.

I am in a similar situation. However, I'm on the other side. I'm a friend who has decided to step away from my friend, let's call her Maria. I have contemplated posting here about my dilemma but I am a coward.

Most people will probably judge me very harshly. On the surface I am abandoning this vulnerable person. Maria, like OP's friend, has made various suicide attempts - she has suffered from depression and anxiety for most of the time I have known her. She has been very unlucky in love, has physical health problems and her career has hit the skids. So it seems odd and cold that I would walk away at a time when she needs me, particularly when I have been good friends with her and supported her in the past.

However, most people are unaware how much support Maria has required from me. She is reluctant to accept professional help.

I have known Maria for over 10 years and in that time I have opened up my home to her, ALWAYS provided her with a shoulder to lean on when she needed it, phone calls at 3am, impromptu visits at 10pm, dozens of text messages a day. I have spent hours, sometimes days, watching her so she didn't kill herself. I once spent 11hours straight listening to her tell me her problems. I provided her with financial assistance whenever she lost her job. I was happy to do this because she needed me and I could.

Why have I decided to walk away? Self preservation. In the last couple of years she has attempted to come between me and mutual friends (she loathes me spending any time with other people). Made various passes at my husband, sometimes in front of me. Put me and other friends down. She is always contrary, whatever I or my other friends say is wrong because she is right and she is intellectually superior. When I was pregnant, sick with HG, struggling to sleep she would call me in the middle of the night threatening suicide - apparently I was the 'only one who could help her'. She is completely unable to see anything apart from her own despair, and I understand that is part of her depression but I can't do it anymore.

She has not been any sort of friend to me. Ever. For example, when I had my youngest dc she came to visit. I was in the throes of PTSD and was having major anxiety attacks. I told her this. She stayed for 5 hours telling me all about her issues and not once asking me how I was. She only left when my husband told her to as I needed my rest. I have come to the conclusion she doesn't like me much. She is increasingly bitter, I understand her life has not panned out as she had hoped and she resents that I have that life. I think me being in her life probably does not help her.

I am celebrating a significant milestone in the summer. I have been planning it for a year. I was dreading her being there, I knew I would not enjoy it. My husband doesn't like her, my children don't understand why she is 'always sad'. My other friends put up with her for my sake. I would have spent the entire time managing all of these interactions. I do want her to be happy but I feel so responsible for her happiness at times and I am exhausted.

People who don't know the story and know how difficult Maria can be will criticise me. I cannot help that.

OP, you have been (understandably) vague about details in your situation but perhaps you don't know everything.

I bailed on my 'Maria' when I was told by someone who'd seen it all before that she would latch on to me, need me, then persecute me. I bailed at the needy state, to save myself. There is no mortal victory in self-abnegation for someone else, especially when it probably won't do them much good anyway.

MPT: I wouldn't judge you harshly at all, sounds like you have done more than enough for 'Maria'.

Mental health problems happen to shitty people as well as nice ones, and they are even harder to help.

OP, do you know the circumstances of the 'suicide' attempt? Has your friend form for unacceptable behaviour (violence towards others, theft, dishonestly, repeated disruption of social events) and might s/he have done something around the time of the attempt that caused serious harm or potential harm to someone else?

TBH you are going to be no help to her. You are really naive and self-righteous about the whole business of mental health and you risk either making her worse or wrecking your own life with isguided attempts to cure her with your lurve.

MyPrettyToes, I feel sure that anyone who has the facts of your situation would only criticise you for not extricating yourself sooner.

Here's to the rest of your life

I have some doubts about the OP. On the other hand, the ex-friends might have given her the letter to hand deliver so that they could be assured that the suicidal friend would have some support there when she opened it, rather than being alone.

I had a friend who attempted suicide at university. Two of her close friends chose pretty much never to speak to her again. And it was a joint decision.
I don't and didn't blame them - the attempt was an attention seeking attempt to win sympathy / support - she wanted to stop her friend dating a guy that she liked ( the guy didn't like her the suicidal one and also the friend had already decided not to date him as she valued the friendship more) - the attempt was planned not to be serious but ended up more so through misjudgment. I supported her. Initially but withdrew overtime. ( she was too blatantly basking in the attention) - another friend played the supportive role but realized years down the line that she had been played ( she was used as a doormat for years)
It's not always as clear cut as it seems

MY PRETTY TOES... you have also written my story
I have had a similar situation recently too. I have taken a step back from a friend of 10 years because I have decided that I cannot cope with her depression and anxiety and support her without it affecting me.
I have spent the last 4 years being there for her when her life had taken a bad turn, and have really tried as much as I can.
She is a lovely person, and I want to be there for her, but I have depressive tendencies myself and she is beginning to 'bring me down' with her too.
I have taken and acted on advice given to me, but when I try to help her she just ignores every piece of help and advice given.
I know the fact that you cannot 'just snap out of it' when you are depressed, but to actively argue back why you cannot do 'this' or 'that' in an aggressive manner over and over again was one of the last straws.
After literally being shouted at for not inviting her out for a coffee one day I retaliated. I told her exactly how it felt for me to be on the other side constantly listening to her problems and her just ignoring my advice, and how I was sick of it all. I know I shouldn't have but I couldn't help it.
She went into meltdown and I have suffered with guilt ever since.
We are on speaking terms now, but it's all superficial.
To be honest I don't want to get that 'close' to her again as it makes me anxious and I can't cope with her negativity.
It has taken me years to get into a 'better' place with myself and I don't want to risk going back there.
Call me a heartless bitch, and yes I do feel bad, but I can't see another way.

I am not a mind reader I suspect you’ve mixed up mine and the OP’s posts, and Sillylass has then quoted your two people merged to one, post, and the OP is being misunderstood as a result.

Mine about 'B and A, animals and financial bottomless pit' was a warning post to the Op not to make the mistakes I made. I’m happy to answer the qustions and concerns you posted about B more fully, but don’t want to hijack the OP’s post.

But Yes she’s IMO an animal hoarder, no HCP’s didn’t know that.
Yes the senior HCP used those exact words.

I asked him if he’d ‘like to put that in writing!’ Unsurprisingly he didn’t, but instead did put into writing “unsuitable for all forms of therapy, including talking therapies.” There are no reviews, nothing, and a refusal to offer any advice beyond “it’s a case of when not if.”

but you need a hell of a lot more information about what help you need to be offering her and what may initially be seen by you as help but which may actually make your friends situation worse. Absolutely agree, both for the OP and her friend and for B and myself, and anyone else caught in similer.
It's been refused over B, and wasn’t given for A, even when clearly needed.

I hope OP reads this:

In the coroner’s court, the information that A was officially most vulnerable to suicide at the time they would normally be arriving at work, was finally given to those he was dumped on, (B had said she couldn't cope) as ‘obvious’ after he killed himself.
B, and I, (as the friend he called when B couldn't cope) then both got told that it should have been obvious through observation. It wasn't.

I made a terrible mistake because that info wasn’t given out, and they didn’t respond to pleas for help the night before, when I tried to get it for him from an out of hours team. I have been held responsible for failing A.

A hadn’t been noticeably more agitated in the mornings while at home, how was anyone our end supposed to know to do something differently? How could anyone have known that a calm offer of making tea in the morning should have rung alarm bells? That's were this stuff can end.

The responsibility's dumped on people, (or taken by them) with no info given, no matter how much is asked, and calling for help results in being told there’s not a problem when there clearly is.

I’ve learnt the hard way, both the ultimate cost of friends getting it wrong, and how appalling some MH services are. You can’t learn a harder lesson about the truth of how the MH system works and friends good intentions.

I blame no one who walks away, except those paid not to, who choose to.

Just, I'm so sorry you went through that. How appalling that you were held responsible in such circumstances.

I recently had a friend loose a child who had been very I'll. 2 of our other friends cut all contact after the funeral. I was more upset about this than my bereaved pal who obviously had more important things on her plate. I spoke to the two who CAT and they said bereaved pal had become very selfish. Turning every thing around so it was all about her. They said they couldn't handle listening to anymore "self absorbed sob stories" that's a quote so I have likely outed myself if they r reading!
I felt this was massively selfish but each to their own. Pal was like this before her wee man got sick!

Some of the opinions on this thread seem to illustrate the judgement towards mental illness over physical illness. the bottom line seems to be that people who have a mental illness are selfish drama queens and should get their act together, take responsibility for their lives, stop putting it on other people (aka pull their socks up). Ignorant imo, literally ignorant ie little knowledge of some of the true effects of mental illness.

It doesn't help that there is very little treatment available from our health service - which is being cut back even more, if that is possible, as we speak. So people with mental illness are hung out to dry in the community - which is often seeringly judgemental. Those in the community who do hang around to help can get ravaged by the effects of the illness, which should be being dealt with by trained professionals.

Conclusion: don't get mentally ill. You've had it if you do.

I was trying to be deliberately vague and general about the details to protect my friends' identity. As there were 3 friends they all knew suicidal friend at different times (one since uni, so 20 years, another for 5 years since when we were all bridesmaids etc.), and I tried to keep it general so no one could be identified. They appeared to be close friends - that was the point I was making.

I did ask them why they wrote a letter and they thought it was the kindest thing to do. Seeing my suicidal friend in person would have been too upsetting and dramatic - there would be tears, and accusations etc. they didn't want that, so they did it by letter as that would also give the suicidal friend time to digest things.

I see what a lot of people are saying. It just felt, to me, it was like leaving the weak one behind. That's not nice, but it is logical. Maybe I'm the stupid one for sticking around and going on about true love is what keeps going - I need something! But I always think - anyone could one day become the weak one.

Maybe what we need is more positive psychology for people with mental health issues to help themselves.

myprettytoes - have done the same. I could never work out why such an interesting and affectionate woman seemed to have so few friends. It took me ages to work out that her affection was always on her terms and was withdrawn if you displeased her. She has threatened suicide before now. She has mental health issues but refuses any medication.

Her partner left her and I was furious on her behalf - I was there day in day out comforting her, mopping tears, giving her hugs, reassuring her that she wasn't a horrible person. For months and months and months with no change - and I thought it strange that no-one else seemed to come around. Even her adult daughters avoided her. And then I realised she thrived on my emotional energy, she was a leech. I would arrive at her doorstep and take a mental deep breath, and leave wrung out like and old dishrag.

And then she started drinking again and I saw the violent angry woman that her partner had had enough of. And the anger was directed towards me and my youngest child who had come with me to see her. I kept trying to step back and she always texted me again with some sob story and I didn't have the guts to say now. Last October she reach out again and we went over for a 'family' party that she had arranged - she was yelling drunk when we got there and I ended up taking her son and the dog home with us because she wasn't fit to look after them.

She hasn't been in touch with me since. She knew she went too far.

I am a chronic depressive so I sympathise with her but I also know that she needed to take steps to fix herself and she wouldn't inspite of suggestions and advice and offers of support. Might add that my H had an affair a few months after her partner left and I was in a mess - she was still demanding and taking and she wore me out. The really tragic thing is that she IS a funny, clever, interesting, capable woman when she isnt in self-destruct mode. It's really sad.

Sometime you have to step away to save your own life.

The

Some of the opinions on this thread seem to illustrate the judgement towards mental illness over physical illness.

I think this is really unfair.

The truth is that it takes fewer of my resources (time, energy, emotional, whatever) to support any of my friends with physical illnesses than it does to support any of my friends with mental health issues.

None of my friends with physical health issues want to speak to me for hours on the phone.

None of my friends with physical health issues have asked me to drop other friends so that I can focus on them alone.

None of my friends with physical health issues have refused to engage with professionals because they can depend on me instead.

Many (but by no means all) of my friends with mental health issues have done the above things.

If my friends with physical health issues were to do those things then, yes, I would find them much more difficult to support. I would find them needy.

Realistically (given that I work FT, have 3 young children, and am doing everything I can to help my stepfather in his recovery from cancer) I don't have any more time or emotional energy to give to anyone, whether with physical or mental health issues.

And on the subject of suicide, I simply cannot engage with anyone who is suicidal. I just can't. My father killed himself when I was a young teen, and I can't be around suicidal people without it doing me enormous harm. So sue me.

No-one's going to sue you, I'm certainly not. Of course not - I am so sorry you experienced your dad's suicide when you were a young teen. Must have been, and still is, awful. I'm not surprised you can't bear to be around anyone who is suicidal.

I suppose it takes immense boundary skills to be around someone who is ill (to the point of not recognising social cues) and not many of us have developed those to the fine point that is required when dealing with someone who is mentally ill. Some people who are mentally ill can take the piss - though whether that's the illness or not is anyone's guess (a professional would have a clearer opinion about that I expect!).

I'm not sure that talking about people with mental illness being "weak" is helpful. Depressed people aren't weaker than nondepressed ones. It gets more complex if personality factors are involved rather than depression and many of the people who self harm have personality disorders. They can have very strong often overwhelming personalities and don't come across as "weak" at all, just very needy. I suspect many of the chronically needy, self centred friends mentioned here have personality disorders rather than depression.
To be friends with someone with a personality disorder you have to have a very strong personality yourself to stick and keep to boundaries to stop them taking over your life.

OP, are you the one who's known SUicide GIrl for the shortest time? It sounds to me as though the others have either seen through her (she's not mentally ill, just self-obsessed and unpleasant) or are aware that there is nothing they can actually do to help, because she won't help herself.

I wonder what's in your past that makes you such a willing martyr.Were you brought up to be 'unselfish' ie accept unfair treatment and suppress your own needs entirely? If that's the case I can see how self-righteousness becoems your only comfort.

ALso, more generally: if someone has a personality disorder, it's fair to say that s/he can't actually help having it, yet that surely doesn't mean that friends and family have to put up with abuse, manipulation, drama etc indefinitely with no hope of a cure.

I agree Cinnabar

I have a friend who is a wheelchair user. The most help he ever needs from me is the very occasional bump up a kerb or slightly more planning on where to meet due to accessibility issues. That's it.