To not understand why "friends" are abandoning a friend in need?

[runnermum1974]

My friend attempted suicide and did real serious damage to themselves.

Days after the attempt 3 of their close friends have said they are going their separate ways. They have given some reasons, but they are pretty lame - like they are not compatible, and deciding that now, after 5 years of friendship!!

I am not saying that they have to be friends or anything. But the timing is bloody awful.

I do not understand how friends can abandon a friend in need. Anyone can be a friend in the good times. The test of friendship comes in the hard times.

If anyone has a story about abandoning friendships when a friend is in a difficult place, then I will appreciate the insight.

AIBU to think it is unkind to leave a friend in need?

When our family started to experience Psychiatric illness most of our friends and family wanted nothing to do with it. There was no support from them at all.

Even now that things have stabilised the illness is never mentioned by my family, and is clearly not to be mentioned. There's clearly huge stigma attached to it.

It's terrible that your friend has been abandoned, but I think it's probably not uncommon. As others have said you don't know what is going on for them, or has gone on for them. I haven't been particularly supportive to a friend going through divorce, but then I have my children with their illness to think about.

I think you should support your friend. But please make sure they're also getting professional support.

I think it would be terrible thing if they'd ended an otherwise good and mutually beneficial friendship just because the other person was experiencing health problems that happened to be of the mental variety.

But I strongly suspect this isn't the case here.

Your friend sounds incredibly needy, and I guess they'd just had enough. Not everyone is willing or able to act as an unpaid psychiatric nurse- and nor should they be expected to either tbh.

I do think it's hard to tell just from what's written here

If your friend has been very needy and demanding then obviously that is because she is ill, but that doesn't automatically make it easier on those she is leaning on

In general I would try to be there for someone no matter what but there have definitely been times in my life that I just wouldn't have been able to cope with any additional pressure and would have to take a step back to protect myself

The awful reality is that the NHS MH budget is so tiny it often simply doesn't step up when people are in a bad way - because there's nothing there . Then the ill person ends up splattering themselves all over people who are not experts and have no idea what to do. Add to that the stigma to mental illness, and therefore the judgements, and it's no wonder people turn their backs.

btw I'm not comfortable with the word 'needy' as it has too much of a judgemental flavour to it. If someone was in agony with a physical injury and was calling out for help, would they be termed 'needy'?

That's so true springy, and it's always been the case. I feel a bit uncomfortable saying to people to get in contact with their GP/psychiatric team because it can often make the situation worse when they realise what a shower of shit the 'care' available is (if it's available at all).

Sometimes it's better not to have the added rejection and certainty that there is very little hope/help.

It really does depend. I think it's impossible to judge the situation from the outside.

Sometimes you do need to cut people from your life who are toxic to you - I've done so with people with addiction problems, and friends who weren't necessarily in dire situations, but were pretty low in life and refusing to be helped or to help themselves. There's only so much a friend can do. It's not unreasonable to not be able to offer unending, one-sided support. It's a burden to carry. For me, I'm not sure I could do that for anyone other than a close relative. I wouldn't judge these friends, who knows what else is going on their lives? It was likely a tough decision for them, and this is why they discussed it, but your friend in all honesty is not their responsibility, nor is it necessarily "right" to offer another person unending support, especially at detriment to their own well-being.

I think it depends but, probably, I think YABU.

I have never actually gone through with a suicide attempt but I have been mentally ill with one or more of anorexia, self harm, a mild form of bipolar and (possibly - personally think it's unlikely) a personality disorder or two since my early teens.

When I was at university I was a total basketcase and unfortunately strained some friendships beyond repair. I don't blame those friends at all, it was me making the situation untenable, not them. No, it wasn't really my fault but it also wasn't theirs. They are not worse people than those I am still close friends with, they just have different limits and different requirements from friendship.

Looking back on myself then from an older and more stable vantage point I can see that I was manipulative, needy, self centred and very very annoying. I'm lucky that I had so many friends who could see beyond the illnesses to the actual person underneath them and stick with me. But the friends who couldn't did the right thing for them and that's fine.

Maybe your friend isn't like I was (maybe still am - hope not!) but, given the nature of mental illness, I think it's likely.

on the whole people with such severe mental illness are incredibly selfish. That is of course due to the illness, but it doesn't make it any easier for those having to be on the receiving end.

Nobody should feel they have to be there for someone who is suicidal tbh. Most people have neither the emotional strength nor are they qualified to be.

And people have their own lives and their own problems. Your friend should be receiving professional help, but even if she isn't, it isn't the responsibility of others to be her unpaid psychiatric support, and nobody should be judged for that.

If your friend is needy, then it is possible that these three believe that her injury is, in fact self inflicted, and that that is just a step too far for them. It's their prerogative to walk away, it doesn't make them bad people.

People only have so much to give.

You don't know what is happening in their lives.

It is shit for your friend though.

Nothing you can do about it that won't make it worse.

runnermum I think you are being quite judgy about the friends. You have no idea of perhaps what exactly was going on their lives. Maybe they could not wait a month. Something awful might be happening in their own lives.

Stop being so critical of others and put your energies into focusing on your friend

It's sad that they chose this timing, but if they really don't feel like they can be there for this person again in the future - for their own self-preservation - then I think its better that they've been honest. Doing the fade is very hurtful - my sister's best friend just faded from her life after she got a diagnosis of depression. She couldn't work out what was happening, why she couldn't get hold of her friend, whether something had happened to her, etc. Some people just can't cope with the constant neediness and drama. I admit that I find it very tedious after 20 years and have, on occasion, wished that I could walk away!

" The suicidal friend has been acting rather dramatic lately and has been very needy - lots of phone calls etc. "

There's your answer. I can completely understand CO friend's point of view. Life is hard enough without having the stress of a 'friend' threatening and attempting suicide. Would be quite different though if they were not being demanding though- then I'd definitely say it's a case of fairweather friends. In this case though, sounds like they've all put up with a lot for a long time.

I agree with Juneau- "fading" is quite hard to achieve without it being noticed, and can be more confusing for the person being "faded| from (especially if done slowly over a protracted period of time). I don't think that would help your friend.

As for "inappropriate timing"- when would be a good time? And why a month?

Do they wait until your friend is starting to get back on her feet, and then tell her they are walking away? That risks damaging a fragile recovery, so could be deemed "inappropriate". No time will be a good time. Probably better your friend, and the professionals supporting her, knows what kind of support network she has from the start.

I think you are beginning to sound a bit self-righteous and unreasonable now.

You don't know the impact your friends illness and now this suicide attempt is having on these ex-friends- emotionally, on their relationships/family (if they have any)/work etc. It may be that they just can't cope any longer. By the sounds of it, though, you don't really care what their problems are as you've made your mind up that they are wrong to stop their friendship at the moment, no matter what the reasons (I suspect each will have their own reasons).

Sometimes you have to put yourself first and that is the right thing to do.

It is distressing for your friend to lose friends, though. I hope he/she get the treatment and support they need to make a full recovery.

YABU not to understand. Friendship can't solve everything, people have problems of their own, and sometimes for simple reasons of self-preservation it's important to create distance. That's going to sound harsh but I have seen a lot of people dragged down, marriages fail, and all kinds of other problems caused when someone else's problems start to become all-consuming. The person with the mental health problems needs professional care.

I think those on this thread who are saying they are not true friends have never been in a situation such as this. I have had to walk away from a very needy friend at a difficult time in their life in order to protect my own mental and emotional well being.

Wannabe's quote: On the whole people with such severe mental illness are incredibly selfish. That is of course due to the illness, but it doesn't make it any easier for those having to be on the receiving end is spot on for me.

Sometimes it's not about being a 'fair-weather friend'. Sometimes it's about having to prioritise your life, the life of your DH/DCs/family etc. I have a very good friend who has been depressed/suicidal on and off for about 10 years. The illness runs on a fairly predictable pattern and she has, over time, excluded all her friends, leaving me as the last one standing. NOT because she's a bad person, but because the 3am talk to me, I need you to be here for me, I can't do this, if I don't talk to someone I'm going to have no choice but to harm myself phone calls are exhausting, especially when you are a single mum, have 2 DCs and work full-time. It's simply not possible to have that level of disruption in your life ongoingly without walking away. I love her, and I'd do anything for her, but the reason I'm still here for her is because I put boundaries in place (which she initially really resented me for) to manage how much of my time was devoted to her needs.

Another good friend has recently been experiencing serious depression and I hit the same obstacles. The hours and hours of phone calls, the expectation that you can and will drop everything else in your life to support them, the I need you here (when 'here' is a 4 hour train ride away), the utter (illness induced) lack of awareness that everyone has demands on their time.

My DH and my (now teen) DDs were incredibly understanding, as I dashed off, yet again for a few days to look after her, as I stopped mid-conversation to answer the phone to her (knowing that it'd be an hours call, minimum) but eventually it started to affect them as well. By wanting, so badly, to help her, to support her and be there for her, I'd turned myself into a crutch for her. I had to, again, put boundaries in place to deal with it. And it's SO hard to do. To say to someone you care about, who is really up against it, "Look, you can't call me 5 times a day. We're going over the same ground and it's not helping you. I have things I need to take care of here. I'll call you, for 15 minutes am and pm. You can't call me in between." I felt like such a bitch. But the first step of putting out a fire is stop chucking petrol on it. Without meaning to, I think I was fostering and facilitating her difficulties. She was refusing professional assistance because talking to you makes me feel better and when I pulled back a bit she had to seek out medical help.

Did it scare the hell out of me? Yes, of course it did. I used to go to bed at night thinking that if she woke up in the night and couldn't call me (I'd set my phone to 'do not disturb') she's try to harm herself. But that wasn't something I could stop. Adults are not the responsibility of their friends. Everyone has a limit.

I agree that by effectively going non-contact overnight the friends have behaved, on the surface, in an abrupt and hurtful manner, but it's hard.

Sorry for the mammoth post...

Sometimes it is too hard to support a friend with severe depression without compromising your own mental health, and providing appropriate support can be detrimental to your own family.

If these friends have tried for two years to maintain the friendship and have accepted random calls at all hours of the day, then they probably feel they have done all they can.

Sadly a lot of people have ugly souls, you don't find out they have ugly souls until you are vulnerable then you see how ugly so many are. Thankfully there are a few beautiful souls walking this earth.

People tend not to have much sympathy for people with MH issues. Its sad, but its true. Someone in physical pain, or with a serious physical illness are generally felt 'worthy' of support.

"Needy", "drama", "selfish", "burden".

Would these be directed at someone with a life threatening illness like cancer? No, but a life threatening illness like depression, its OK.

Suicide is the biggest killer of young men between the ages of 18-35. Mainly because they don't talk about it. Two friend's bothers. Two people at work and my best friend from University. They are the 5 people I know who have committed suicide. Compared to one heart attack and three people who got cancer, all who survived.

While people with MH problems are seen as being dramatic and selfish, thats not going to get better.

OP, you're right that their timing is lousy. They could have at least decided to go gracefully rather than make someone feel even worse when they're obviously at such a low point. Having said that, better to find out who your friends are.

And yes to whoever above said about MH services being cut. They are pared down to the bone and so long as that continues people will continue to suffer.

Ugly souls? Wtf?

I think the point is that being a supportive friend/relative to someone with severe mental health problems can be a FT job and it's not one that everyone is prepared to take on. It's can be exhausting and relentless.

I know from experience with my sister that we struggle through one crisis and sigh 'Thank fuck for that', and within a couple of months she's been plunged back into the pit of despair by something else. During these times of crisis she's like a black hole that sucks all the energy from those around her and not everyone has that much to give. If you have a DP, DC, a job, a house, a life of your own, you can't necessarily drop everything, take calls in the middle of the night, calm the sobbing and wailing, endlessly empathise when the same thing happens again for the 20th time. Its one thing being a trained MH professional and being paid to help, quite another to be a friend or family member who isn't trained, doesn't know what to do or say and who, quite honestly, doesn't need that kind of drama in their life. I think these friends have been honest - that they can no longer cope with this and no longer wish to. End of.

KarenBrockman - did you read the long and insightful post just before yours?

My mother suffers from mental health problems and I find I am at the very limits of my patience with her quite often. It has been going on all my life. If she weren't my mother I would not have a relationship with her, it is too depressing!

I suppose that makes me an ugly soul.

Someone in physical pain, or with a serious physical illness are generally felt 'worthy' of support.

There have been times in the past where I've experienced this. It does seem easier for people to respond to, for example, a broken leg.

But I don't think it's a particularly easy comparison to make. With a lot of physical illnesses, you know what to do, and when the person is likely to be better. You don't in many cases with someone with a mental illness. One person's help might be another person's harm, and it may go on for six months or six years or for life. You might think you're through the worst when another breakdown comes out of nowhere and you're back to square one.

It can be exhausting, painful, gruelling to deal with someone with long term mental health problems, and the first rule of any first aid or care is 'do not put yourself in harm's way.' If you get to the point where it's going to be detrimental to yourself to help, then I do think you need to back off.

On a practical note - other people need to be aware of what support you are capable of giving. I have a support network that contains surprising people. Not everyone you would assume is there - and this is a good thing; I don't want to lean on someone so heavily that they'll break. I'll damage them, and, selfishly, I will also be left without support. So two of my siblings are not part of my core team.

Hearing 'I can't do that' is helpful; it might be hard initially, but I need to know what's what.

The psychiatric team dealing with me need to know who I've got in real life, as it were, so they can feel confident that I am being protected when I am not with them. It would be dangerous to be in a situation where I've said; 'my husband can manage my medication' for him to turn around two days later and say 'actually, I can't keep up with that.' Knowing up front what someone is capable of is critical, and for those people to be able to communicate with each other is critical too.

It's not to say that other people won't help where they can - I'm honestly grateful for any tiny amount of support that people can give - it's about knowing who I have to rely on when the worst happens.

For what it's worth, I don't blame anyone for walking away. I genuinely don't, and I don't cut them out; I figure that I'll probably be able to see them again when I'm going through a better time. But what it boils down to is that nobody else can fix me. The work is mine, and I can have support and guidance and an excellent medical team, but ultimately, nobody else can do it for me. I might not be able to do it myself (though I am currently in a really good place and doing splendidly), but basically, I have to be the leader.

Very well said lookingthroughthefog