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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WIBU to berate the Christians who insisted on giving my ds a pamphlet?

153 replies

HarrietSchulenberg · 08/03/2014 15:27

In Chester this morning. Only nipped in as I had an eyetest but H and dses wanted a quick nosey round town. A large group of middle aged and elderly Christians were singing and leafleting in the middle of town, which is fair enough: live and let live etc. First time we walked past H and I said polite "No thank you"s when offered leaflets, as we are Atheists so really had no want or need of them.

Second time we walked past them they offered leaflets again. We are quite a distinctive family so I'm sure they remembered us from earlier, but thought they'd try again. Firm "No thank you"s from us again but two of them started pushing leaflets at Ds1 (13) and 2 (11). Ds1 ignored them but ds2 took one to be polite. Luckily they didn't try ds3 (6) but mainly because he was on the other side of H so they couldn't reach him.

We started to walk away but then I realised what they'd done. So I went back and told them not to give leaflets to my children, just adults, and us adults didn't want them. First man smiled and said, "It's OK, Jesus loves you": cue curt declaration of my atheism and another request not to target children.

Second man repeats, "Jesus loves you" mantra at which point my politeness vanished and I might have bellowed something about pixies in the sky and not preying on the vulnerable. And walked off while they were telling me again that Jesus would forgive my sin if I would just admit what I already knew (Hmm ) and believed.

Only to be approached by a third man round the corner who also seemed hell-bent on giving us leaflets. He also insisted on telling us that Jesus loved us and also told me that Jesus cured his alcohol addiction, at which point I gave a loud snort, told him to back off and rounded everybody up ready for home.

And the leaflet? Tells us that we are all sinners and in debt for our sins (what sins has an 11 year old committed other than the occasional nocturnal raid on the biscuit tin?). But the debt "must be paid ... to have any hope of heaven". And then a lot more about believing in Jesus and a contact address for a free New Testament on the back.

H and ds2 think I should have just binned the leaflet and walked away, but ds1 agrees with me that such blatant attempts to indoctrinate need to be challenged, even if it does mean a "scene" in the street. So, WIBU or is it OK for people to peddle religious twaddle directly to children in the middle of a busy city on a Saturday morning?

OP posts:
BackOnlyBriefly · 09/03/2014 20:21

winterhat how would you feel if the leaflet was for that Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) that's been in the news?

winterhat · 09/03/2014 20:25

What does that have to do with it BackOnlyBriefly? Christianity isn't illegal.

winterhat · 09/03/2014 20:26

And of course I'd be disgusted. But I think it's a very strange comparison.

BackOnlyBriefly · 09/03/2014 20:28

Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) wasn't illegal at the time. Not sure if it's illegal as such now. It was a lobbying group.

My point is it is easy to say "it's only a leaflet' if it's something you are ok with. Like all the Christians who say that compulsory worship is ok because it's their religion.

iklboo · 09/03/2014 20:33

Pizza leaflets don't usually tell you you're wrong, have sinned & will go to hell if you don't order a supreme pepperoni deep pan.

Serendipity30 · 09/03/2014 23:15

your hilarious OP try walking somewhere like brixton, london i get people trying to shove flyers at me all the time, religious flyers and flyers for charity's unlike you i keep on walking. My dd is 9 and she keeps walking or if she takes one she asks me what its about then puts it in the bin herself. You really need to calm down, your reaction was over the top, and im sure if the flyer was given by a muslim person you ould not have reacted the same.

BackOnlyBriefly · 10/03/2014 11:10

hakunamatata8, read all the of the thread and you may understand better.

Then read lots of other threads on MN in which Muslims get criticised just as easily as Christians.

Nataleejah · 10/03/2014 11:13

yabu.
Just bin it.

SooticaTheWitchesCat · 10/03/2014 11:20

Ok, I wouldn't have been too happy if they had given my child a leaflet like that but I wouldn't have made a fuss, we would have just done what I do with any other flyers, leaflets etc. take them home and put them in the recycling bin.

Beastofburden · 10/03/2014 11:23

I'd have been furious. Telling a child he is a sinner and will burn unless he believes in god. WTAF?

That kind of behaviour towards children ought actually to be illegal. Can you imagine if Muslims did it?

Nataleejah · 10/03/2014 11:27

Muslims do it sometimes too, communists do it... So what? I couldn't care less

BackOnlyBriefly · 10/03/2014 12:09

Nataleejah is there nothing that could be put on a leaflet that would bother you? Nothing at all?

UncleT · 10/03/2014 12:22

To me, the main point is that they were told no. It's one thing to offer leaflets, it's another to shove it into a child's hand after a parent has already politely but firmly said no thanks. That's unacceptable, but in my view has more to do with manners and respect than religious rights or wrongs.

JayoftheRed · 10/03/2014 13:13

I am a Christian, but I really don't like the groups who go out into the street and shove it down your throat. As someone else mentioned (sorry, I'm new here and can't remember all names!), I don't hide my beliefs, but neither do I push them at people - once people know I'm a Christian, I'm open to conversation about it, but if they don't want to know, that's fine too!

I get very upset with the local Jehovah Witnesses near us - I have asked them to take our address off their list when doing their knocking on the door thing, but to no avail. Last time they came round, two adults in their Sunday best stood on the pavement while two boys aged about 12 and a young girl of about three knocked on my door. They were all dressed in suits/smart dress which seemed really wrong for 9am on a Saturday. One of the lads handed me a leaflet which normally I would refuse, but he was shaking with nerves and could hardly speak. I took it politely, thanked him, and then gave it to my one year old who took great delight in destroying it.

Personally I don't think you were being unreasonable, OP, although the pixie comment probably didn't do you any favours. They really shouldn't be forcing leaflets on anyone, especially not kids, and especially not if they've been told no already!

IceBeing · 10/03/2014 13:22

So is it okay for a christian group to attempt to hand out leaflets to obviously muslim children? What about the opposite direction?

Once the OP had stated her atheism surely it is a lack of respect of her beliefs to continue?

Beastofburden · 10/03/2014 13:38

I think perhaps that if I were a practising Christian, or Muslim, I might not mind if someone gave my kids a leaflet for a different faith, as I could say, "no, we are Christian/Muslim, you're not going to hell because we are already sorted out, just on a different ticket".

But if you are atheist it is much more offensive, I think. Because they are definitely targeting a child to tell them they will burn in hell unless they join this specific faith.

Given there are rules about advertising to children, I do think there ought to be rules about this too. The only way Christians can justify this kind of bullying against the wishes of the parent is if they think the kids can just brush it off. In which case, why bother?

Objection · 10/03/2014 13:40

Love a good game of Religious Debate Bingo.

Has anyone said "That's why its called Faith" yet?

FWIW OP, I think YADNBU. I respect people's right to believe what they wish but think it is ugly and disrespectful to try and force that belief on other people; particularly when they've made it clear they are not interested.

(You also remind me of my good friend and colleague who refers to god as "that Sky Fairy" if she is particularly incensed)

Sarahschuster · 10/03/2014 14:10

There is a bit of a difference between a religious leaflet of this sort and a political leaflet, Nataleejah. Religious leaflets tell you you will burn in hell unless you accept blindly the particular faith being promoted. Political leaflets explain why it would be beneficial to adopt their perspective using evidence. Doesn't mean some political leaflets can't be offensive (thinking BNP et al), but there is still a difference.

KellyElly · 10/03/2014 14:41

I couldn't get worked up about it to be honest. I only get the rage with the annoying people who try to sell you tacky 80's style photo shoots and the pesky street runners from hairdresssers. Give me a bunch of Christians over those fuckers any day Grin

hunreeeal · 13/03/2014 13:17

Religious leaflets tell you you will burn in hell unless you accept blindly the particular faith being promoted

Hmm Rather a generalisation there! I've never seen one that said that. It's more likely to be "here are the time of our Christmas carol services" or "stop the war".

AntiDistinctlyMinty · 13/03/2014 13:50

As a practicing Christian I get so wound up with people who do the whole 'lets go and convert people with shouting/leaflets' thing. I really think that by aggressively pushing their particular beliefs they do so much harm to the wider church; people start to believe that all Christians are like that and they become much less open to discussion or intelligent debate.

There also seems to be a certain amount of picking and choosing which bits of the bible they're going to pay attention to. Like the guy with several tattoos who stands outside Nandos in York preaching that the bible says homosexuality is a sin and they'll all burn in Hell, but fails to realise that Leviticus also bans tattoos in the same passage.

I don't push my faith on people - if they want to ask questions I'm happy to answer them, but it's not my business what they believe. I just try to take the wider message of acceptance, tolerance and forgiveness from the scripture and live that way Smile

SolidGoldBrass · 13/03/2014 14:02

I would have whipped out my mobile, called the police (non emergency number) and loudly reported them for street harassment and 'aggressive begging.'

Because, while it's stupid to believe in gods, if you just get on with doing so in private or your designated funhouse, that's no problem of mine. But if you are following people and persisting in trying to foist bullshit on them despite their having said No politely once then you need a sharp warning. Having a stall at the side of the road - or offering a leaflet once and stepping back after a refusal - is fine and allows you freedom of speech.
I hit one once, for grabbing my arm as I tried to walk past, having already shaken my head and said, No. He grabbed, I whacked, and then I got to walk away.

Floggingmolly · 13/03/2014 14:24

while it's stupid to believe in gods. If it's all that stupid, the op's kids were in no more actual danger than if he'd been giving out free samples of washing powder.
This guy didn't impede the op's progress in any way; she went back to harangue him when she realised her ds had been handed a steaming piece of dogshit leaflet.
He then said "Jesus loves you", probably his stock phrase for calming down shouting crazy women.

Beastofburden · 13/03/2014 16:34

anti There also seems to be a certain amount of picking and choosing which bits of the bible they're going to pay attention to. Like the guy with several tattoos who stands outside Nandos in York preaching that the bible says homosexuality is a sin and they'll all burn in Hell, but fails to realise that Leviticus also bans tattoos in the same passage.

There are even ppl dumb enough to have that Leviticus passage actually tattooed on them, which is a triple fail.

gay tattoo story

SolidGoldBrass · 13/03/2014 21:02

FLoggingMolly: The OP says these losers did block their way and kept shoving leaflets at them despite having been told to desist. I would have said/done the same if they'd been pestering people with leaflets for pizza, politics or a new shoe shop - it's the pestering that's the problem.

Of course, they are the sort of shitbags who will then be whining about how persecuted they are, if they were to get nicked for blocking the public highway and harassing passers by.

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