WIBU to berate the Christians who insisted on giving my ds a pamphlet?

[HarrietSchulenberg]

In Chester this morning. Only nipped in as I had an eyetest but H and dses wanted a quick nosey round town. A large group of middle aged and elderly Christians were singing and leafleting in the middle of town, which is fair enough: live and let live etc. First time we walked past H and I said polite "No thank you"s when offered leaflets, as we are Atheists so really had no want or need of them.

Second time we walked past them they offered leaflets again. We are quite a distinctive family so I'm sure they remembered us from earlier, but thought they'd try again. Firm "No thank you"s from us again but two of them started pushing leaflets at Ds1 (13) and 2 (11). Ds1 ignored them but ds2 took one to be polite. Luckily they didn't try ds3 (6) but mainly because he was on the other side of H so they couldn't reach him.

We started to walk away but then I realised what they'd done. So I went back and told them not to give leaflets to my children, just adults, and us adults didn't want them. First man smiled and said, "It's OK, Jesus loves you": cue curt declaration of my atheism and another request not to target children.

Second man repeats, "Jesus loves you" mantra at which point my politeness vanished and I might have bellowed something about pixies in the sky and not preying on the vulnerable. And walked off while they were telling me again that Jesus would forgive my sin if I would just admit what I already knew ( ) and believed.

Only to be approached by a third man round the corner who also seemed hell-bent on giving us leaflets. He also insisted on telling us that Jesus loved us and also told me that Jesus cured his alcohol addiction, at which point I gave a loud snort, told him to back off and rounded everybody up ready for home.

And the leaflet? Tells us that we are all sinners and in debt for our sins (what sins has an 11 year old committed other than the occasional nocturnal raid on the biscuit tin?). But the debt "must be paid ... to have any hope of heaven". And then a lot more about believing in Jesus and a contact address for a free New Testament on the back.

H and ds2 think I should have just binned the leaflet and walked away, but ds1 agrees with me that such blatant attempts to indoctrinate need to be challenged, even if it does mean a "scene" in the street. So, WIBU or is it OK for people to peddle religious twaddle directly to children in the middle of a busy city on a Saturday morning?

I think they are unreasonable to be so pushy but you are equally unreasonable to be so rude to them. Two wrongs don't make a right and extremists on both sides of this issue, evangelists and atheists, are equally abhorrent in forcing their views on others. It is rather sad that your 11 year old seems to have shown better manners than all the adults involved. My children were always encouraged to smile, say thank you politely, then we could talk about it and throw it away. Incidentally, how do you think your children will be able to form their own views if you act like that to people who differ with you?

shakinstevenslovechild That is appalling. I have rarely heard of anything so disgusting and, as somebody with a faith myself, I am horrified to think that anyone could justify that in the name of religion. It just shows how far some churches are from goodness. I am sorry for you loss.

Yes that behaviour is dreadful.

I've found that groups like the one described in the OP are so conservative that they view all mainstream Christians (C of E, Baptist, Methodist, RC etc) as not proper Christians and I've had a fair few arguments debates with them in my time. My theory is if they are busy telling me I'm not a proper Christian because I don't go to their church then they aren't bothering anyone else.

'religious twaddle' - what an offendive statement

But it is twaddle. Until such times as any of the claims can be backed up with any scientific evidence, then it is, and will remain twaddle.

Leaflets shouldn't be handed to children. I wouldn't have got into an argument (my teenage son probably would have done though). I'm more of the ignore, or point and laugh approach.
Jesus loves me as much as the tooth fairy and Father Christmas do.

religious twaddle' - what an offendive statement, just because you dont believe doesn't mean that your beliefs are superior to those who do believe!

Sorry, but I think it's disingenuous to suggest that it's wrong to judge the beliefs of others, or take quite a strong position on what you think about these beliefs. Hitler sincerely and genuinely believed Jews were destructive subhumans - am I not allowed to think my belief that they're not is superior? Scientologists believe we were created by a big space monster called Xenu and prey on vulnerable people demanding massive amounts of money to do pointless courses - am I not allowed to think this is both twaddle and well out of order? Much of what the bible says is pretty grim, makes about as much sense as the great god Xenu, and much of what some religious groups do/believe is pretty offensive and has a negative impact on the lives of many people. So twaddle seems pretty mild to me, and the suggestion that people shouldn't make a judgement about beliefs held by other people is plainly very silly.

Massive over reaction.
Smile and ignore.
It was a leaflet not drugs.

Believing religion is twaddle, is no different to believing in god.

You're both entitled to your beliefs and neither is offensive imo

Hmmm "religious twaddle" v "your are in debt for your sins and your debt must be paid to have hope of heaven" said to a child.

I know which one I find the most offensive..........

Christians are taught to pass on the Good News and they're just doing what they believe is a good thing and what they've been charged with in order to fulfil their role.

Just smile and say "no thank you", or put the leaflet in the bin.

How you reacted was far more offensive.

No it really wasn't. Badgering kids with a message about atoning for their sins is far more offensive than a parent telling some fanatics to leave her kids alone. I don't give a fuck if Christians believe it's their role to promote their ludicrous beliefs, badgering kids is totally out of line.

I think twaddle is too kind a word and judging it to be dangerous nonsense - as I do, is not the same as believing in god.

I can put forward arguments based on facts that religion is dangerous. Whereas there is not one speck of evidence that religion is any more than fantasy.

In fact since religions disagree with each other it can be easily demonstrated that at least 90% of believers must be following the wrong one. Most of the rest can be dismissed too, it just takes longer to spell out.

The only religion that can't be shown to be nonsense is the one that consists of "hmm, I think there might be something out there you know!" and the people who think that tend not to bother other people.

Just to reiterate - I only reacted because they would not go away. H and I had politely declined twice, after which point they foisted a leaflet onto ds2 who is only 11, having tried unsuccessfully to get one to ds2 (13).

When I asked them, politely at first, not to target my children, two of them tried to engage in a debate, hence the "pixie in the sky" comment, which wasn't my finest retort. I actually wish I'd had more time to have the debate and been more prepared, but I'd only nipped into town and wasn't anticipating a religious ambush.

The more I think about it the more I know IWN BU and they were not just wellmeaning Christians trying to spread the word. They seemed to think they were on commission for harvesting souls. Which makes me sad, as, lifelong atheist that I am (despite coming from a benignly churchgoing family), these people actually do more harm to their own religion than good.

Anyway, H cheered me up by suggesting I get my own soapbox and set up next to them as the Dyslexic Atheist Association, declaring there is no dog . Which I might just do...

I don't understand which 'rude' retort bothered you

Unless you think 'Jesus loves you' is rude.

Fine to not agree with them but they weren't rude to you.

Being hassled by people trying to stuff leaflets into your hands even when you've said "No" and being told that your personal views don't matter because "Jesus loves you" actually is rather rude, Laurie. Especially when it's said in a smug passive/aggressive tone.

They were harassing her kids, after being asked to stop, with potentially quite distressing propaganda! How is this OK?

Just put the leaflet in the bin, you don't have to read it.
They weren't in town in the afternoon, you must have scared hem away!

When did they say your views didn't matter

What makes you think they were being passive aggressive - this is a genuine question.

I don't think they should have put leaflets in your children's hands when you had said no, they clearly shouldn't have done that.

I also don't think they were actually rude in what they said to you - you said their retort was rude but what they actually said was 'Jesus loves you'.

Sorry I see that you actually said smug as well as passive aggressive - that's quite a lot of interpretation from 'Jesus loves you'.

Yabu and rude.

YABU. I'm an atheist and DD knows that nod and smile is the way we deal with any mention of religion. I have taught her to respect the right of others to believe. Leaflets etc are to be politely accepted and recycled later.

I wasn't there, but I get told Jesus loves me all the time when I'm debating religion. In context as a reply to something I've said the poster doesn't like it's pretty much "Jesus loves you even though you are a piece of shit".

Sometimes it's even spelled out with lines like "Jesus said we have to love the sinners too no matter how vile they are"

It's hardly distressing if you don't believe in it, Sarah? Op is teaching her children it's about as believable as "pixies in the sky".
You can't have it both ways.

Yanbu. You would have been unreasonable if you'd thrown open the doors of the local evangelist church and told them all what utter bastards they were and to stay away from your children, but this situation where zealots thrust leaflets at you and your kids is out of order.

A good way to really annoy evangelists is to offer to pray for them when they try this shit on. I have my own religion btw, I'm not an atheist, but in mine you have to go seeking for your own truth, in fact you're dissuaded from the path unless you have the strength to follow your own way.

Unless you think 'Jesus loves you' is rude.

In this context it's intended to silence and enforce their own view of the world.