WIBU to berate the Christians who insisted on giving my ds a pamphlet?

[HarrietSchulenberg]

In Chester this morning. Only nipped in as I had an eyetest but H and dses wanted a quick nosey round town. A large group of middle aged and elderly Christians were singing and leafleting in the middle of town, which is fair enough: live and let live etc. First time we walked past H and I said polite "No thank you"s when offered leaflets, as we are Atheists so really had no want or need of them.

Second time we walked past them they offered leaflets again. We are quite a distinctive family so I'm sure they remembered us from earlier, but thought they'd try again. Firm "No thank you"s from us again but two of them started pushing leaflets at Ds1 (13) and 2 (11). Ds1 ignored them but ds2 took one to be polite. Luckily they didn't try ds3 (6) but mainly because he was on the other side of H so they couldn't reach him.

We started to walk away but then I realised what they'd done. So I went back and told them not to give leaflets to my children, just adults, and us adults didn't want them. First man smiled and said, "It's OK, Jesus loves you": cue curt declaration of my atheism and another request not to target children.

Second man repeats, "Jesus loves you" mantra at which point my politeness vanished and I might have bellowed something about pixies in the sky and not preying on the vulnerable. And walked off while they were telling me again that Jesus would forgive my sin if I would just admit what I already knew ( ) and believed.

Only to be approached by a third man round the corner who also seemed hell-bent on giving us leaflets. He also insisted on telling us that Jesus loved us and also told me that Jesus cured his alcohol addiction, at which point I gave a loud snort, told him to back off and rounded everybody up ready for home.

And the leaflet? Tells us that we are all sinners and in debt for our sins (what sins has an 11 year old committed other than the occasional nocturnal raid on the biscuit tin?). But the debt "must be paid ... to have any hope of heaven". And then a lot more about believing in Jesus and a contact address for a free New Testament on the back.

H and ds2 think I should have just binned the leaflet and walked away, but ds1 agrees with me that such blatant attempts to indoctrinate need to be challenged, even if it does mean a "scene" in the street. So, WIBU or is it OK for people to peddle religious twaddle directly to children in the middle of a busy city on a Saturday morning?

And of course then there's this

It's hardly distressing if you don't believe in it, Sarah? Op is teaching her children it's about as believable as "pixies in the sky".
You can't have it both ways.

I don't think the OP stated exactly what she's "taught" her kids about religion. I think the idea of going to hell for sins committed can be worrying to some children. May or may not have been to the kids in this case, which is why I said "potentially distressing", but either way, foisting your deeply unpleasant ideology on children when you've been expressly asked not to is rude, aggressive, and unacceptable.

Not distressing?

Did they have bibles? You know, those books they carry full of god and his favorite people gloating at how many women and children they have killed.

The book that says if god wants you to kill your child or someone elses child you should just go cut them up?

It's not all "we plough the fields and scatter" you know.

......... I've never met any religious people who were 'converted' with a flyer!
Why the fuck do they bother handing them out then?

I'd love to know what the success rate of conversions-in-the-high-street is. There's nothing that puts me off shopping more than a group of these hasslers.

It's not all "we plough the fields and scatter" you know.

I don't see how 'Jesus loves you ' is anything apart from words.

Everything else is just yours and mines interpretation.

The words themselves are NOT rude/smug/intended to silence.

I don't think you were being unreasonable. And I am a practising catholic! We are meant to show the kingdom through our actions. Showing disrespect to you and trying to force a message on your child in lieu doesn't really fit the bill...

YANBU.

I am always initially polite to people shoving unwanted bumf at me, & have brought my children up to refuse politely, also.

Once somebody continues shoving twaddle (or anything else to cf.it's not like they handed him a bottle of vodka!), despite being politely refused, then firmly refused, they are likely to be told to shove it sideways.

I do the telling, so that my dc do not have to be assertive-bordering-on-rude to an adult, however inappropriate & rude that adult may have been. They're far too well brought up to feel comfortable with responding in kind.

where do I have to go for the vodka-shovers, though? They're jolly elusive round our way.

It is irritating and intrusive to be hassled as you are going about your business, but personally, even as quite a militant secularist, I do not feel such a need to shield my DC from religious leaflets.

I don't think it is right for me to be the gatekeeper for all information and opinion that reaches DS, now 12. And as for the 'Sinner / repent or else' angle - have you heard the way boys aged 9 and up speak to each other? Even naice boys like my DS and his friends?

Religious leaflets, double glazing leaflets, leaflets for unbelievably disgusting pizzas with bizarre toppings and stuffed crusts - surely we need our children to learn to ignore, refute, withstand as appropriate. It isn't as if religion is illegal.

Totally irritating to have people deliberately getting in your way and hassling you, but otherwise I winder why you got so het up and didn't just let your children see you being calm, polite and 'no thank you'.

I'd imagine they chose those words because they believe them, coldlight.
It is the central premise to their beliefs, after all.

coldlightofday

I'm going to guess its because the OP berated them and then went on to rant at them, and then further to snort at someone who shared their alcoholism recovery story.

So I think it's likely the the reason they said 'Jesus loves you' twice was because they didn't want to piss her off further by saying something actually antagonistic - perhaps as a blessing to her? Perhaps as a way to protect themselves?

If someone in the street says 'Allah loves you' to me I would accept it as a blessing.

Tbh you sound as bonkers as him. What makes your non faith superior? In fact you IMO come off worst as plainly you lost it whilst they apparently were calm. I get your point but you made it flipping badly. Better luck next time.

And those of faith are obliged to share it. Because sharing it is the point.

Jodie the point of leaflets is to start a conversation. A conversation can lead to an invite to a group or house. Nothing really different to bloody cancer research chugging for direct debits!

That the point. Faith.

coldlightofday

You'll notice that I said first because they didn't want to piss her off. And then added a question mark after 'blessing'
and after 'way to protect themselves'.

But hey don't let that get in the way of you arguing.

If someone said 'Jesus loves you' to me, I think 'yes, he probably would have done, because by repute, the Jesus at the heart of Christianity is like that'.

And despite being an assertive secularist I think most of the values and lessons embodied in the stories of Jesus are exactly what I subscribe to, and tolerance and non hatred of people with different views are part of that.

It just isn't healthy (IMO) to see the different views and beliefs of other people as something dangerous that can corrupt your children in an instant and that your children must be shielded form at all costs.

The woman who first of all berated them, then ranted about pixies, then finally snorted at the alcoholics recovery story

Protecting themselves against scary ranting woman who calls it a 'mantra' because they said it twice - just so aggressive.

And thank you for apologising - that is kind.

"And those of faith are obliged to share it"

Please don't refer to your own particular branch of one religious belief system as "faith" with no qualifiers - it suggests you are saying that it is the only faith, or at least the only one that matters. It may be YOUR faith but it certainly isn't mine.

And my particular faith has no obligation to "share" it with everyone, in fact it is generally considered rude to try to convert others who are happy in their own beliefs.

For those who think that these people had every right to try to force their leaflets onto someone else's children, would you feel the same if a member of a very different faith - lets say the Church of Satan - set up in your local town centre, was evangelising and trying to force their promotional material on your children. Then kept telling you that we are all the beloved of Satan the Horned One?

Marylou2 Sat 08-Mar-14 19:55:18
YABU. I'm an atheist and DD knows that nod and smile is the way we deal with any mention of religion. I have taught her to respect the right of others to believe. Leaflets etc are to be politely accepted and recycled later.

This is how I was raised by my atheist parents, and if I'm honest, I'm probably more chilled and open to suggestion now then I was when I was 11 At that age I'd have been mightily pissed at having junk mail shoved into my hands and having to smile politely whilst looking for the nearest bin. I'm far more forgiving in my old age!

A lot of my family are Roman Catholic though. If Grandma can't cure me of my heathen ways, no street peddler has a chance!

It is out of order for them to shove leaflets at kids, but lets be honest, they're not going to stop no matter how much you tell them off. Better to teach your kids to take it politely and shove it in the bin.

"Bastards be floggin' the Good Lord on the street like He's tea towels!" - My Grandma

Allergic - since I don't believe in Satan and know hat as my DS is used to discussing the pros and cons of things and is therefore unlikely to be turned into a baby sacrificing menace somewhere between Mothercare and Nandos, and doesn't believe in Satan either - I would not have the slightest qualms about him being offered a Satanist leaflet.

I would object to him being given porny leaflets covered in naked women - or man - with premium cost phone lines for prostitutes of either sex.