to be fed up with school thinking it is okay to keep giving my sons a bible and asking them to pray?

[soontobeslendergirl]

I don't have any issue with people following whatever religion or belief that they choose.

However, despite going to a non-denominational school, both my sons are now in possession of two copies (each) of the New Testament. These have been handed out at school assemblies by persons unknown and they have been asked to pray at the end.

I am sure that the school population wont be exclusively Christian.

We are of no religion, neither of my son's have any religious beliefs.

I'd like to remove them from worship in school, they don't want to make a fuss or be made out to be "different" by sitting out. I respect that, but it really annoys me.

The home and with parents is the place for this. I have no issue with religious education as this gives my children the opportunity to learn what others believe and to make their own choices, but worship is another matter.

ffs right back at you

You seriously think it's perfectly ok to not bother to read a thread and just wade in with the first thing that enters your head, regardless of whether it's already been discussed and answered by the original poster?
Righteo then. Says a whole lot more about you than me.

I am with the OP here. It would creep me out. In your shoes I would be talking to your DC about the recent press coverage of schools where Muslim governors are allegedly putting pressure on heads and others to have an overt Islamic agenda in the school. I would be discussing with them the fact that people seem to get much more exercised about that than they do when Christians push their religious agenda. I would be saying to them that there have been three examples already in their own school, and no doubt there will be more, because their head is committed to that agenda. I would be saying that religious propaganda isn't any better when it's carried out by the dominant group in society.

Then I would sit back and let the school prove your point with whatever they do to abuse their privileged access to these children.

Weird about the withdrawing from assembly thing.

With the status quo, the Christians are saying, "opt out, your kid will be fine with that, it doesn't matter if he is the only one."

But when an opt-in is suggested, they say, "no, unfair, nobody will opt in as its not cool to be religious and they will be bullied".

So it's Ok for atheists to stand out and be isolated and/or bullied, but not Christians?

Surely, the best system is a secular school assembly and then a voluntary prayer club at lunchtimes.

yes beast, strange double standard that one

my "sakes" earlier was in reaction to yet another person who hadn't bothered to read the thread and decided to say the same thing as numerous people had previously and I couldn't be bothered to answer the same yet again. Thank you sir for replying on my behalf.

I am going to disagree that it makes posters look stupid though - a bit lazy or careless maybe and it really does get frustrating and annoying.

Whatever Mad - I really couldn't give a flying fuck if that say more about me, you or the man in the moon. All I know is that it doesn't make anyone stupid.

Anyway - back to the OP. Are you going to speak to the school about it, do you think soontobeslendergirl?

Well, as I say, I would speak to the children myself, and then let the school hang themselves by their behaviour. The school will continue with little acts of religious indoctrination, because they think its the right thing to do. Speaking to them will just mean that the kids and the mother will be put on a list of "difficult people".

I do think the combination of religious faith and being put in charge of a school can bring out the worst elements of arrogance and almost bullying, in some men....

I'd do both - and to hell with whether the school puts me on a list of difficult parents! It's not down to whether or not the Head is a man either - women are just as capable of being arrogant bullies.

Boys have been away camping all weekend and I haven't been well, so I haven't spoken to them yet.

I am already on the list of difficult parents I think as I complained about the day at the Christian adventure centre already. And have also been on several times in relation to the system they use for parents night bookings (alnd lost property!) . My youngest has already said to me before about something that he doesn't like it if I phone the school.

Tbh, after reading the details of what the curriculum is meant to contain, I don't really see it so much as an issue with the school itself, it's bigger than that. Sooo, not really sure yet where I go from here.

Thank you for all your comments, it does seem that there is a fair proportion of us, definitel a majority who either find it a problem or are ambivilant. I think it is time that Faith and Education were seperated.

I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who pointed out that being
religious is not the only way to be a good moral person. That is probably the thing that gets up my nose the most.

You might find this interesting. A couple of excerpts:

'The Church of Scotland and the Humanist Society of Scotland have issued a joint call for the law requiring Religious Observance in Scottish schools to be replaced with a ‘Time for Reflection’ to make school assemblies ‘more inclusive and clearly not gatherings where one faith or belief system is promoted over another’ ....

'a July 2010 YouGov poll commissioned by the Accord Coalition found that 43% of British adults agreed (to 30% against) that the laws that require schools to provide daily collective worship, including at faith schools, ‘should be replaced by a requirement that they hold assemblies which consider spiritual, moral and ethical issues shared by different religions and by those who are not religious'

Now that I'd be ok with. Maybe I should move to Scotland. The schools seem to be more sensible in many ways.

The schools are, having experienced both sides - sadly our First Minister and his followers leave a lot to be desired....

I can't see the Church of England doing this, unfortunately.

Maybe this is your time to stand up and be counted OP (your DSs too)? If one non-believing family withdraws from worship, others may join in. We put up with so much in the UK. It takes an awful lot to make anyone protest about anything. Eg the current apathy about the Snowden leaks, which has caused far more concern in other countries. And so people like your HT take advantage.

Errolthedragon- thanks for that link. That looks like a really good thing. I think I will have a closer read and perhaps email my MSP.

being religious is not the only way to be a good moral person

Did anyone say it was?

hunreeeal That implication is always there. I have been on the receiving end of it often. imo it's the thing that gets up peoples noses the most. After all no matter what kind of life we lead, unless we believe that Jesus died for our sins then we are going to hell, right?

That implication is always there

It certainly shouldn't be and I don't know any Christians who believe that, although I am sure there are some people who either are Christian or describe themselves as such and do hold such beliefs.

Church is for sinners. If you are not a sinner you don't need the Church. As a Christian the only claim I would make is that I am a better person than I would have been if I wasn't a Christian. But I know many non-Christians who are good, moral people, many of them far more so than me.

After all no matter what kind of life we lead, unless we believe that Jesus died for our sins then we are going to hell, right?

Not a subject on which there is universal agreement amongst Christians. I certainly don't think that is true. The Mormons, JWs and the like tend to take this view but they are regarded by mainstream Christians as non-Christian. The Bible says that those who place their faith in Christ are saved and will not face judgement. That presumably means others will face judgement but that does not necessarily mean all will be condemned. Personally I am of the view that the parable of the sheep and the goats is about what happens to non-believers.

I am a better person than I would have been if I wasn't a Christian

And I'm still not particularly good.

I'd say the only stupid people around on this thread are the ones telling others how they can, and cannot post.

prh - absolutely it shouldn't be, but it still is more often that i would expect.

I live a good moral life because I was well brought up and I've hopefully brought my own boys up the same. We seem to be doing alright so far.

If having a faith gives people comfort and helps them to be "better people" then that is brilliant for them.

My issue, I think, is people foisting their beliefs onto others, particularly the vulnerable and those who don't get given a choice but to listen. I am sure that this only applies to a proportion of those with a belief, but in my experience there are very many with a superior attitude.

soon - so should you never mention your faith, worship in secret, quietly, in case someone accidentally hears it, but didn't want to?

Of course you can mention your faith, just as you can mention your politics - it's a free country, after all. Context, however, is all important.

What a bizzare comment periwonkle.

If you can't differentiate between foisting and talking about your faith in other peoples earshot then that is a bit worrying.

I have no issue with people talking about their faith to me as I can say that I am not interested or walk away or listen depending on what I want to do.

We are talking here about a group of children who are not being given any option, including being told to pray when they are in an environment when they are expected to comply with instructions. That is foisting.

Just chiming in to agree with Soontobe and SirChenjin (on politics as well as religion ) really.

I don't think that there should be religious instruction in schools. I also think that RE/RMPS should have to cover a variety of religions/philosophies - my Higher RMPS course was very Christianity (Protestant - though they didn't mention that!) heavy, with only Humanism as an alternative viewpoint. I do know an RE teacher who is an atheist who does tackle more religious viewpoints so maybe it comes down to the individual teachers.

I'd certainly support a 'Time for Reflection' alternative. I think there is a danger sometimes when trying to move to a more secular society (which I largely support) that the benefit of some of the religious practices are lost. For example, prayer at the start of council meetings, whilst I agree that there shouldn't be a forced religious prayer, I do think that having councillors take a moment to reflect at the beginning of a meeting could put them in a more thoughtful frame of mind and encourage them to think about the consequences of the decisions they are about to make. (I'm not sure how well this works in practice but ideally!)

In discussions about whether or not there should be religious schools in Scotland. I do regularly make the point that schools which are not 'religious' do have a lot of religious instruction, and that Catholic schools just make sure that instruction is in Catholicism. If you want to create a more secular school system it would be sensible to start with removing religious instruction from 'non-religious' schools.

We're considering home educating DS for other reasons, but if we do send him to school I would Opt-out of religious instruction till he's old enough to think critically about religion and make up his own mind.

Ideally it would be an Opt in (if at all) system and if it has to be an 'opt out' system then the students should be able to opt out even if their parents haven't chosen that.

SpiritedWolf - agree totally - 16 years and over students can opt themselves out. Still haven't had a proper discussion about it with the boys yet as life has intervened and we have been addressing something else instead.

It is still on the Agenda though and it will come to a head shortly with the approach of Easter and a Cathedral service that No1 son will manage to get "lost" on the way to, but with No2 son still being in 1st year, he will get corralled to it in his class.

I do think it is confusing for them as No2 son was asking what we were giving up for Lent and I explained that it was a religous thing but he was welcome to join in if he wished.....he kept insisting that it wasn't religous. He also wanted to cut all Grain out of his diet though as he saw someone on YOUtube saying that humans weren't designed to eat grain. He then got quite upset as I told him that there will be another video with someone saying the opposite but if he wanted to modify his diet within reason he would have to give me notice and let me know what he could eat. This was because he wanted to go without breakfast as all we had in was cereal, toast or waffles. Anyone want a soontobeteenager???