to be fed up with school thinking it is okay to keep giving my sons a bible and asking them to pray?

[soontobeslendergirl]

I don't have any issue with people following whatever religion or belief that they choose.

However, despite going to a non-denominational school, both my sons are now in possession of two copies (each) of the New Testament. These have been handed out at school assemblies by persons unknown and they have been asked to pray at the end.

I am sure that the school population wont be exclusively Christian.

We are of no religion, neither of my son's have any religious beliefs.

I'd like to remove them from worship in school, they don't want to make a fuss or be made out to be "different" by sitting out. I respect that, but it really annoys me.

The home and with parents is the place for this. I have no issue with religious education as this gives my children the opportunity to learn what others believe and to make their own choices, but worship is another matter.

SoonTobe ... that It is of central importance that all pupils and staff can participate with integrity in forms of religious observance without compromise to their personal faith. maybe gives you something to work with. Your children are finding the 'let us pray' compromising - it seems like an instruction to perform an act they don't want to (really can't, if they don't believe'. So you should ask the school to request visiting religious people to ensure that they phrase things more appropriately - make it clear that this is a time for prayer if you wish or quiet reflection otherwise. (ask your DC what would work for them).

thanks Errol - good point. I'm trying to be careful that by not wanting others to impose their beliefs on my children, I am also not guilty of imposing mine on them when they are the ones that have to deal with the consequences. At 12 and 13 they are able to make their own mind up in this matter I think. I can see a frank discussion coming on.

I have no problem with the bible - it's just a book that has no more value than any other book.

I would have a big problem with the "let us pray", because I don't want anyone teaching them to pray. They can learn about religion in RE but I do not want them being instructed to worship.

I can see a frank discussion coming on.
with the DC or the school or both? I enjoy them with my DD, fortunately haven't had to have one with her school (English) as they've formulated their 'collective worship' policy extremely carefully.

Errol, with the offspring initially.

most wicked - yes totally.

You get my point though huh ! How often are kids taught about the alternative to religion . Never in my 14 years experience .

As far as I know humanism is taught in year 5.

RE is the ONLY subject that schools are required to teach by law. It is also law, in England at least, that schools have a daily collective worship. RE teaching should be mainly about Christianity.

In my opinion schools should teach RE as a lack of understanding can cause fear, but there should be no worship outside faith schools.

Chances are slim of this happening. Don't forget that Gove sent every school a bible. Signed by himself. Twat.

I wouldnt mind my child (raised by two atheists) being goven religious texts as how else will she be exposed to religion enough to decide for herself which if any she wishes to follow?

But then you'd expect a variety of religious texts to be handed out, wouldn't you? Not just bibles?

Or perhaps the school could keep texts in the classrooms that students can study - like they do for most other subjects. Children are not generally given geography or history or maths text books to take home and keep. Why would they need to be given bibles?

Personally I think the ideal is for children to be taught a comparative religion class in their teens, when they are becoming mature enough to make an informed and independent decision about whether any of the religions they study are for them.

ScarletStar

I may have to put that on a T shirt

Haha! Yes not my words unfortunately as I'm not that clever, but I spotted it on the internet and I loved it!

If they are giving out Bibles, let's throw on the complete works of Shakespeare and a desert island luxury while we are at it.

At DC4's school they are given a dictionary or scientific calculator, and their watercolour case (they each have their own). Much more appropriate.

If you are so offended by something as simple as a visitor asking for a moments prayer maybe you should have researched what actually happens in the schools in your area. You clearly have very strong views about this so why didn't you ask prospective schools about this before you enrolled your kids there?

I wouldn't be happy - just as I wouldn't be happy with any political party coming into the school and hawking their wares. Religion and politics should be kept out of schools as far as I'm concerned. I don't mind a teaching of an awareness of the general principles, but nothing more.

YANBU. In a non denominational school it's particularly inappropriate and I would complain. If the people who spend their time in this activity didn't think it woukd have an impact, they wouldn't do it therefore it is an attempt to influence the religious and philosophical thinking of your kids which is wholly out of order.

And don't get me started on fecking faith schools.

Ask HM when the Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Humanists etc. are giving their assemblies.

I'm staggered that so many on this thread think what the school has done is OK. It's not. The school is non-denominational, so it should not present any religion as a universally-accepted truth which is what it's effectively doing. There's a world of difference between handing out books of different faiths and comparing them, and handing out New Testaments only. There's another world of difference between saying 'Let us pray' and 'There is now going to be a Christian prayer. You may join in if you want, or sit quietly and reflect in your own way.' Schools in this day and age should be more than capable of working out the difference and acting accordingly.

I don't know why you are getting such a hard time OP, this is totally unacceptable. There is a clear line between religious education and proselytization and this is proselytisation.

It would be fine if the school gave out bibles as part of RE and you'd expect that the month after they would give out the koran and the month after they'd give out Buddhist sacred texts and so on. You'd also have to ask why they were giving out free texts for RE and not for English Lit or science of course! In most schools you have to pay extra for textbooks or find them in the library.

Asking the pupils to pray is completely out of order! If there had been some kind of event in the school that required reflection and meditation I could understand a minute of silence but asking pupils to pray is completely unacceptable.

I think the issue is the school presenting Christianity as the norm, and telling its pupils that they are Christian by default. Young children often tend to want to fit in with the group and IMO this is a way of trying to indoctrinate them before they are old enough to critically examine a religion. I went to school in Scotland, and come from a family of atheists, but the whole of my primary schooling left me in no doubt that I was supposed to be a Christian.
I have no problem with them teaching children about different religions, but saying "let us pray" carries with it a subtext of "because we are all Christians"
It also bothers me that you have to "opt out" of religious observance. Again, this is saying to children that the normal state of being is to be Christian, and to be anything else is to be "other."

Schools are required to have the kids worship a god. Not just learn about a god, but worship him. The headteacher can invite anyone he likes to push their religion and they can say what they like.

If you take them out of assembly they miss out on other things so that is effectively a punishment.

Lying ill in bed, but just wanted to point out that in Scotland we don't necessarily choose a school. You go to your catchment non denominational school unless you are catholic. Then you have the choice. You can apply for a place at another school, but it isn't the norm. Non Catholics can apply to catholic schools but go to the bottom of the list.

I can apply to have them not attend on the religious elements of assemblies and or rme and they have to be given something else to do, but the boys don't want to feel put on the spot and made to feel different, so I have to respect that.

I'm surprised that your school is giving out bibles - none of the DCs have ever brought home any religious texts from school (also in Scotland), and rightly so, so it makes me think that it's your HT who's behind this. Have you spoken to him/her about it, or the LA?

You're absolutely right to be annoyed.

If they were at a faith school fair enough but I was under the impression a non denominational school shouldn't be including prayer or bible study day to day except in RE??

I would disagree with that, and I'm a Church going Catholic. It's one thing educating people, quite another using a position of power to make children feel they have to comply.

I complained when a Christian from another Church came to speak to my daughters class and rubbished some core Catholic beliefs. Transpired the teacher totally agreed with me- he can hold his opinion, but he doesn't need to give it out freely, especially in schools - and I got an apology, and hopefully not further problems.

So maybe you could politely make your feelings known to the school, and ask what's going on.

I'd be interested to know how many have converted on the basis of these assemblies.

When you think it's probably about 20 mins a week, and not every week at that, compared to the constant influence at home, is there any need to worry too much?

(And I would be happy if the 'collective worship' was dropped from English schools)

AltogetherAndrews has put her finger on the problem I think.

"saying "let us pray" carries with it a subtext of "because we are all Christians" "

DD is only 6, and in a non-faith school, but has still somehow gotten the idea that Christianity is the default setting - and is true. She certainly didn't get that idea from me.

I always thought the Gideons came into all secondary schools and gave out bibles. I've still got mine somewhere.