to be fed up with school thinking it is okay to keep giving my sons a bible and asking them to pray?

[soontobeslendergirl]

I don't have any issue with people following whatever religion or belief that they choose.

However, despite going to a non-denominational school, both my sons are now in possession of two copies (each) of the New Testament. These have been handed out at school assemblies by persons unknown and they have been asked to pray at the end.

I am sure that the school population wont be exclusively Christian.

We are of no religion, neither of my son's have any religious beliefs.

I'd like to remove them from worship in school, they don't want to make a fuss or be made out to be "different" by sitting out. I respect that, but it really annoys me.

The home and with parents is the place for this. I have no issue with religious education as this gives my children the opportunity to learn what others believe and to make their own choices, but worship is another matter.

"Let us pray" doesn't mean "everyone must now pray".

"Let us" is a suggestion, not a command.

I wouldn't be happy.

I'm pagan, DH is agnostic. DD is 3 so we're not really into the realms of what happens at school yet. I would most certainly be querying with the school if one religious text got 'promoted' above others, and if implying that everyone should pray was necessary.

I have friends of many different faiths and we all respect each others beliefs, but appreciate that we would not request others to join in with our own forms of worship.

Being quiet and allowing others to 'do their thing' with regard to praying is all well and good, but the implication that schoolchildren should join in with a collective act of worship is not appropriate.

i have no idea what non-denominational means in England or the rest of the UK as I am in Scotland. We have either Private, Non-denominational or Catholic schools. There may be other types but I am not aware of any.

Not really it isn't, as defined here.

I don't see it like that I'm afraid winterhat. "Let us pray" certainly to a child in a school environment means "you are supposed to pray now"

I thought the Gideons went into all UK state schools - I certainly got a New Testament many years ago and the school I work at now has them come in every year. Neither are denominational schools. They are the people who put bibles into hotel rooms.

do you mean UK or England Tinuviel? It's not something that I have heard of happening.

www.educationscotland.gov.uk/Images/roletter_tcm4-650445.pdf

Here's the official Scot Gov guff on religious observance, OP.

cheers Agent - i'll have a wee browse when I am a bit more awake :)

The Gideon's come into every school. They are not pushy at all and they just tell the pupils what they do. It is very much an information session. They certainly so not push religion down the kids throat. I say this as a non religious teacher in a catholic school in Scotland. Even in a religious school they are very relaxed and it is very matter of fact about what they do not necessarily about teaching religion at all. It honestly happens in every school in Scotland to every S1 pupil.

I remember talking about it with friends as a student and it seemed to be fairly normal, but TBH they would have been in England. So I guess I just assumed that it was the whole UK.

Non denominational doesn't mean non religious/ non faith in Scotland. It lacks clarity as I believe schools are meant to have approx 6 opportunities for "religious observence" in the school year which should reflect the religious make up of the community. In practice some heads avoid all religious observence while others may have very close links with the local Church of Scotland minister. The best is to try to have all faiths represented over the year.

I agree with the statement 'religion is like a penis.'

All religion should be kept out of schools.

I think it's pretty standard to hand out Bibles, my son was given one at school too.

Arrrgghh - I should never have clicked on that link.....now I am really annoyed. :(

By the way I teach in a non denominational secondary in Scotland and I can assure you that Gideons absolutely doesn't ever come to our school and it is up to head/smt.

Non-denominational doesn't mean secular or non-Christian. Often it means Christian, but not restricted to one particular denomination such as Baptist, Catholic, Anglican, Methodist etc. There are many non-denominational churches which are usually protestant and often evangelical.

Hmm, just because it is "normal" and routine and happens to everyone, does that make it right?

I would think that actually the exact opposite would be normal and routine - presumably Christian belief/active worship would be less than 50% of the population?

winterhat - unlike other parts of the UK - there are no church funded schools that I am aware of. Schools are run and paid for by councils. the exception being the outdated (imo) catholic school system which (again imo) just carries on segregation and sectarianism.

Sorry OP,but in Scotland schools need to provide collective worship that is 'broadly christian'. My DDs' last head teacher hated it, but Education Scotland insisted,

the exact paragraph is:

In recognition of Scotland’s Christian heritage, non-denominational schools are also encouraged
to draw upon the rich resources of this tradition when planning religious observance. However,
many school communities contain pupils and staff from faiths other than Christianity or with no
faith commitment, and this must be taken fully into account in supporting spiritual development.
It is of central importance that all pupils and staff can participate with integrity in forms of religious
observance without compromise to their personal faith.

Why does this even exist? I am truly annoyed.

I didn't say it was right I just said they do not push Christianity down the kids throat. All they do is tell them what they do and give them a bible. I've seen it happen in all 6 schools I've worked in and only 1 has been catholic so not just religious schools. I actually hate it mainly coz it's boring but don't find it offensive and trust me I do not have any Christian beliefs what so ever. Sometimes it's a good way to teach pupils about understanding and how to respect others beliefs. I've had to remove the bibles from some pupils who we're hitting themselves with them but it was a good teaching tool of respecting others beliefs and not being judgemental.

The best is to try to have all faiths represented over the year.
and non-religious world-view too, one would hope...

'It is of central importance that all pupils and staff can participate with integrity in forms of religious
observance without compromise to their personal faith.'

This is pretty oxymoronic if your personal beliefs are that there are no gods and that religion is on the whole really not a Good Thing.

Scottish Government - Curriculum for Excellence -Provision of Religious Observance in Schools

"The Education (Scotland) Act 1980 continues to impose a statutory duty on local authorities to provide religious observance in Scottish schools."

So you can't really blame an individual school for providing religious observance when it is required in this way.

It's clear too that care is taken to be inclusive to those of other faiths or no faith:

"we can expect Scotland to become increasingly diverse in the range
of faith and belief traditions represented. Religious observance needs to be developed in a way which reflects and understands this diversity. It should be sensitive to our traditions and origins and should seek to reflect these but it must equally be sensitive to individual spiritual needs and beliefs, whether these come from a faith or non-faith perspective"

"many school communities contain pupils and staff from faiths other than Christianity or with no faith commitment, and this must be taken fully into account in supporting spiritual development. It is of central importance that all pupils and staff can participate with integrity in forms of religious observance without compromise to their personal faith."

I'd probably send the bibles back, so they could be reused by someone who actually wanted them. As far as the praying goes, well you have given your sons the option of not attending assembly. If that's not what they want then what else can you do?
It really is time that this business of collective 'worship' is stopped in state schools though.

foodtech, that wasn't a dig at you honestly. What I meant was that it's all very well it being something that happens everywhere, etc, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't challenge.

And now that i've read all that guff from the CfE etc, I agree it is not the school I need to be challenging here, it's the fact that it is included at all.