Convince me that having a larger car than you need is not selfish.

[Rooners]

Because I cannot think of a single reason why it's not. I'm talking about cars that are huge for the sake of it, not cars that carry wheelchairs, or loads of people, in a relatively compact and utilitarian manner.

But something that only has 4/5 seats yet is the size of a small tractor - and no, I don't think this is wrong if you live somewhere with poor terrain. But if you don't?

1. They take up more space when the last things we need on our crowded roads are unnecessarily supersized vehicles.

1. You can't see past them because they are often much higher than 'normal' cars - great for the person driving the thing, rubbish for everyone else

1. They tend to use a larger amount of fuel than a 'normal' car - which is, unarguably, utterly unfair given the fuel crisis the world is facing.

1. They don't fit into a normal parking space which causes untold problems in car parks.

1. They don't fit in a narrow road so cause hold ups as people try to pass each other.

So please convince me, if you can be bothered, that I ought not to be so cross when I am trying to use the roads and one of these massive tanks makes it difficult, dangerous or just really bloody awkward.

I am willing to listen. It's that or spontaneous combustion really.

Mefisto. Next week for example we are going to be travelling a total of about 500 miles, including motorways and London driving. We are no doubt going to encounter many many lorries, buses, etc etc.
I am in no doubt that we shall be safer in a larger vehicle than a smaller one should there be a collision.

Mame Sorry for the hijack, but if you buy an LPG converted car, or get yours converted does it affect your insurance?

Our car has had a partial conversion to LPG, we use it in combination with veg oil and sometimes Diesel for a power boost not to run the car off. I have just asked DH about insurance and LPG, he said it depends on the insurance company, some it won't have an affect on, some it will (either increase or decrease).

Sevensev I haven't disagreed with you, and yes you are most likely to be a bit safer if you collided with something much larger than you. My point still stands though; the lighter, smaller, lower vehicle is very likely to come off considerably worse. In your example that would be you.

True. So are you saying the bigger the car the better?

I said above that the safety issue is relative. You may be safer in a larger vehicle simply by virtue of making those in smaller cars (which score well on safety in their own class) less safe. I said that the desire for larger cars was understandable at least at a personal level. If you collide with an HGV at high speed the outcome is likely to be pretty grim whatever you are driving.

Just as an aside this is quite an entertaining little piece. 'When a driver feels safe when driving, the vehicle becomes less safe'. Not saying I necessarily agree, but an interesting argument nonetheless.

Our people carrier (not 4x4) has a tiny cut off engine and is more efficient than smaller cars with larger engines.

Also, we only use it sparingly and cycle if any trip is under 3 miles (school is 2 miles away so we cycle).

But we need the bigger space as we are a family of five and most cars cannot fit three children car seats across the back.

The irony of the 4 x 4 and safety....

4 x 4 are often more expensive to insure because they are more likely than other cars to be involved in an accident. Ditto people carriers. It is not just because they are worth more and are more likely to be stolen because they are status symbols.

Research has shown that one of the reasons for this, is because people get into the mindset that because their car is bigger, they are safer and therefore don't drive as safely as they would if they drove a smaller car. People are lulled into a false sense of security and rely on the car rather than their own driving skills and awareness.

On the other hand, smaller cars, particularly ones with unfashionable brands are a hell of a lot cheaper to insure. Even when you compare these cars with older ones of a similar insurance value, which have supposedly great safety features over and above the spec of the brand new unfashionable car, the new car comes out cheaper to insure.

Insurance also commonly adds a slight premium to drivers who are involved in a crash which is not their fault which is really annoying, but reflects a fact that these drivers are more likely to have another accident - possibly because although they were not to blame, their awareness/reactions are not as good as other drivers, who may have avoided the same accident.

The mentality of the driver, is more often the more important factor, in assessing whether it is in fact safe. People reflect the car they buy in their driving style, more than we care to admit. And its directly reflected in insurance data and premiums.

Bigger is therefore not necessarily safer.

The irony of the 4x4 is more that people think they will be OK to go out on ice or snow without a clue how to actually drive in those conditions - just because they can get the vehicle moving in snow where a 2WD car owner would just take one look and say sod it, makes them feel invincible.

I recently had an interesting discussion with a woman who insisted that her 4x4 Mini would make it up a steep hill covered in black ice "because it has 4 wheel drive". Er, no - as she quickly found out when it slid straight into a parked car.

Or the example of the recent flooding... people with 4 x 4s went out in them and got themselves into trouble as a result, not realising they aren't "amphibious vehicles". (in the words of one car breakdown company rep when discussing this on recent C4 show on the subject)

I recall once hearing a 4x4 driver on the radio saying he thought only 4x4s should be allowed out to drive when there's snow around.

A presenter (I think Quentin Wilson?) commented that it's not the car that's the issue but drivers who know how to drive in snow.....

I've seen in our area, big 4x4s who's drivers simply got stuck, while small cars got through (including mine), but then my dad taught me how to drive on snow and ice.

OP, this is jealousy and stereotyping masquerading as concern for wider society. Lots of people won't NEED x material thing: wanting it and having it will have an impact on the world's resources. You single out cars because they are a status symbol.

White vans are bigger than 4x4s and if you are struggling to cope with them on the roads then take lessons to improve your confidence. If you don't struggle with them, just treat the cars like vans. If you think the roads can't cope then speak to the council.

All our cars are bigger than 25yrs ago - are we all more selfish?

All our cars are bigger than 25yrs ago - are we all more selfish?

Speak for yourself! I drive a Kia Picanto!

I havent had any accident with bigger cars for 25 years, so I will carry on doing what I am doing.

Just reading through the latest replies and there's still nothing new to answer.

It's so depressing. I thought AIBU might be feisty - but it seems the main problem with it is people don't actually understand what's going on and just say their bit regardless of how many times it's already been offered.

And no, I'm not jealous.

Rooners my dear. You havent learnt yet that even if you are the person starting a mumsnet thread, once started, you have very little say on what is said, how often it is repeated, and in which direction it ends up in!

*I recall once hearing a 4x4 driver on the radio saying he thought only 4x4s should be allowed out to drive when there's snow around.

A presenter (I think Quentin Wilson?) commented that it's not the car that's the issue but drivers who know how to drive in snow.....*

I live somewhere that has ice and snow 4 months a year, and without snow tyres it doesn't matter how good you think you are at driving on snow - you're not going anywhere. Having a 4x4 is a nice bonus but it's the tyres that matter.

This morning I was trying to get onto the freeway, in the snow, behind someone in a little car without snow tyres. That was fun... everyone having to slow down to 15mph to let us on :-/

Just reading through the latest replies and there's still nothing new to answer.
It's so depressing. I thought AIBU might be feisty - but it seems the main problem with it is people don't actually understand what's going on and just say their bit regardless of how many times it's already been offered.
And no, I'm not jealous.

I seriously think you have to look at your own responses to realise this, Rooners. You have a blinkered, self-absorbed viewpoint and are completely unwilling to accept any other. You have not acknowledged any valid argument to counteract yours, even though they have been put forward quite succinctly in all cases. In other words, have you actually read the responses to the thread you started, and if so, have you absorbed and digested the counter-arguments? I would think not - you are stubbornly set with your point, and that's the end of that, as far as you are concerned!

Many posters have put forward the reasons why they drive a larger car, others have correctly remarked upon the fact that bad driving extends to drivers of smaller cars too, (bad driving is bad driving, regardless of the size of your car)but you simply come back with "Oh no, no-one has convinced me yet". Well, at this point, I personally really don't care what you think. So yah boo sucks to you :0P

This is a very good reason to force all manufacturers (cars, toys, food, whatever) to make their goods in a carbon-neutral way.

That's it I'm buying a Hummer. Screw you all I'm embracing my inner Paris Hilton

We have a 7 seater mpv. Bigger than our needs but just found our I am pregnant so at least we won't have to change car.

I'd love a Hummer!
Adore my 4X4, won't be changing it to anything smaller in a hurry.

Oh I'm not parting with my current beast, not a chance! It may not have any extra seats to justify it's enormous size but the view from up above. Wow

On a serious note I stand by my earlier post of safety first for my DC hence the mini monster truck.

Resting I had a 98 Volvo station wagon. I had to leave it behind when I moved back to the UK and I miss it

1. They take up more space when the last things we need on our crowded roads are unnecessarily supersized vehicles.

So we can presume that you don't own a car at all, thus freeing up space on the roads for essential, public service and emergency vehicles?

1. You can't see past them because they are often much higher than 'normal' cars - great for the person driving the thing, rubbish for everyone else.

Likewise buses, lorries, tractors, containers, caravans. Most people cope.

1. They tend to use a larger amount of fuel than a 'normal' car - which is, unarguably, utterly unfair given the fuel crisis the world is facing.

And? YOU don't pay for that fuel. But, as you're so concerned about it, see my question in response to 1, above.

1. They don't fit into a normal parking space which causes untold problems in car parks.

Not if you're capable of parking properly it doesn't.

1. They don't fit in a narrow road so cause hold ups as people try to pass each other.

There are lots of roads in the English countryside in which even small saloons or coupes can only pass one side at a time. We just exercise patience, manners and common sense.