Convince me that having a larger car than you need is not selfish.

[Rooners]

Because I cannot think of a single reason why it's not. I'm talking about cars that are huge for the sake of it, not cars that carry wheelchairs, or loads of people, in a relatively compact and utilitarian manner.

But something that only has 4/5 seats yet is the size of a small tractor - and no, I don't think this is wrong if you live somewhere with poor terrain. But if you don't?

1. They take up more space when the last things we need on our crowded roads are unnecessarily supersized vehicles.

1. You can't see past them because they are often much higher than 'normal' cars - great for the person driving the thing, rubbish for everyone else

1. They tend to use a larger amount of fuel than a 'normal' car - which is, unarguably, utterly unfair given the fuel crisis the world is facing.

1. They don't fit into a normal parking space which causes untold problems in car parks.

1. They don't fit in a narrow road so cause hold ups as people try to pass each other.

So please convince me, if you can be bothered, that I ought not to be so cross when I am trying to use the roads and one of these massive tanks makes it difficult, dangerous or just really bloody awkward.

I am willing to listen. It's that or spontaneous combustion really.

but when you drive every single day then you do notice what other people drive and I suppose after a while you build a picture of what is causing the most issues, then you start a thread about it

I think you spend too much time driving full stop. If you are obsessing over this sort of thing. Cycle instead, or get the train, or the bus. Or change your lifestyle so that you don't have to spend so much time in a car.

Small cars being used for short journeys in towns and cities are at least as objectionable as old high mileage large cars which are still going strong years after their manufacture.

Tilly - hardly any 4x4s have bull-bars nowadays. Therefore, how can that be a reason for you to hate 4x4s???????

I don't think it's really appropriate to consider the amount I have to drive, or why, in this context.

I think it is important to make as ethical a choice as we are ABLE to in the parameters of the demands we face in our lives.

I don't like driving as much as I do but have precious little choice. I do wish you would stop being so patronising, that's the second time I've had to ask you.

For what it's worth I carry all of my children, and shopping, on a bicycle when I can. You have absolutely no idea.

'Change your lifestyle'. Why, of course! Why did I not think of that?

bikes don't get in the way of cars

Erm- are you quite certain about that, Rooners? Sorry, but not wishing to label ALL bikers the same, there are some who ride their bikes quite idiotically.
But I wouldn't want to label them all as idiots, because that would be quite silly . . . . .

I meant (and you probably realise this) that they don't take up space in the same way as huge enormous cars do. They rarely prevent two vehicles from passing.

I am quite aware and concur that many people who ride motorcycles do so in a stupid manner. I don't think that's relevant.

I have a nissan Qashqai diesel, I love the seating position especially at junctions and I feel safer in a bigger car. And I love it, can afford it, so got it.

How many children and how much shopping can you get on one bike at a time?
Genuinely curious
How many children do you have?

Mine fits perfectly in parking spaces. The reversing sensors are fab.

Is this 'we can't think of any justifiction for our point, so let's try and attack the interests of the OP to try and take the argument elsewhere'?

I am beginning to suspect it is. I'm going to bed. With my dogs, and children (far too many of those) and my motorcycle helmet and my bicycle bell.

Stop worrying about what I like, and why, and how often I drive my ugly little car which isn't even mine.

That was never the point of this thread.

Sorry, Rooners, but you brought motorcycles into the conversation, why have they suddenly become not relevant?

Trouble is Rooners, you appear to be doing very little yourself. [I nc from Sevensev btw].
I think, if I were you, I would quit this thread.
It has been a good debate I think, and I think people have learnt things, and may change behaviour slightly.
But you are starting to come across as lecturing others while not really doing much yourself.

Oh and just to say, broaden your mind, Evans

What do you want me to do, Twint?

Evans - I said the behaviour of motorcyclists isn't relevant. ? It's not, is it?

Do you want to talk about bikes instead? I could probably do that all night.

Is this 'we can't think of any justifiction for our point, so let's try and attack the interests of the OP to try and take the argument elsewhere

Erm, no - most people have addressed your points perfectly succinctly, you have transgressed with motorbikes and neighbours wanting you to stay (what that had to do with anything, I'm still not quite sure). So no-one is attacking your interests and taking the argument elsewhere - as far as I can see, the argument remains the same (ie, the one you raised in the first place). As far as I see it, you and some others have one point of view, others of us have another, the thread has not travelled very far apart from your own deviations.
IMO

Gosh, Rooners, I do wish righteous indignation was a viable energy resource. You'd be able to run a small town on your own steam alone.

I totally, totally give up. Please get your facts straight Evans.

Goodnight all.

Rooners Is this 'we can't think of any justifiction for our point, so let's try and attack the interests of the OP to try and take the argument elsewhere'?

That's because your weak point is losing control...

Its also simple evolution of the discussion.

I think you would probably benefit from challenging your slightly stereotypical imposed paremeters and thinking a bit more. Many big cars are of higher quality and do bigger mileages than smaller cars which last less long. I've also converted my X5 to LPG, which wouldn't be worth it with a smaller lower value car. When I'm cycling, I don't find myself unnecessarily troubled by seeing over lorries and buses, so I don't see why this would become an issue for a motorcyclist re big cars.

I couldnt care less if you think its selfish etc. we have a lovely range rover.
There is just dh and I plus 2 dogs. I love being higher up, lovely comfortable leather seats are like being in am arm chair!

im not our to convince anyone but to enjoy driving about! selfish or not!

Please get your facts straight Evans

Now I'm totally lost - which "facts" have I not got right? I am truly, genuinely bewildered here ? ? ?

I mean, read the thread. Check who brought up which subjects and to whom I was replying, before you make out I was rambling on about my neighbours without cause.

You're wrong about those things and I just can't be arsed to go through it all again.

That's all.

And now I'll get accused of not going to bed when I said I would, so off I fuck.

*Stop worrying about what I like, and why, and how often I drive my ugly little car which isn't even mine.

That was never the point of this thread*

Rooners - I honestly don't care what type of car you drive, or how often you drive it. If you love it, then that's absolutely fine by me.

As I see it, the point of this thread was for you to rubbish people who drive vehicles that you perceive to be surplus to requirements. But it is actually not for you to judge. You were the one worrying about what other people like, and why, and how often they drive them. That was the point of this thread (I think)

Wobblyweebles:

I'd really like a Forester but not sure how comfortable it would be in the back for three kids especially on long journeys?

I'll be honest, I don't think the back row seats are particularly perfect for 3 kids on a long journey (more than an hour or two?) The middle seat does have a proper seatbelt at least though (not the crappy lapbelt type). The backseats recline as well (but not by much).

We've been up to Stevens Pass a few times this year as it opened earlier than Snoqualmie but once Snoqualmie opened in January (crazy late this year!) we go there since it's an hours drive only for us. Good thing too as I heard Stevens was closed most of the day yesterday due to an avalanche blocking the road, which reminds me why it's good to have a 4x4 Forester, because you know, avalanches and stuff!