Convince me that having a larger car than you need is not selfish.

[Rooners]

Because I cannot think of a single reason why it's not. I'm talking about cars that are huge for the sake of it, not cars that carry wheelchairs, or loads of people, in a relatively compact and utilitarian manner.

But something that only has 4/5 seats yet is the size of a small tractor - and no, I don't think this is wrong if you live somewhere with poor terrain. But if you don't?

1. They take up more space when the last things we need on our crowded roads are unnecessarily supersized vehicles.

1. You can't see past them because they are often much higher than 'normal' cars - great for the person driving the thing, rubbish for everyone else

1. They tend to use a larger amount of fuel than a 'normal' car - which is, unarguably, utterly unfair given the fuel crisis the world is facing.

1. They don't fit into a normal parking space which causes untold problems in car parks.

1. They don't fit in a narrow road so cause hold ups as people try to pass each other.

So please convince me, if you can be bothered, that I ought not to be so cross when I am trying to use the roads and one of these massive tanks makes it difficult, dangerous or just really bloody awkward.

I am willing to listen. It's that or spontaneous combustion really.

Left bit off.

*and illegal to fit new ones.

I think people should take their social and environmental responsibilities a little more seriously really

Are you vegetarian, OP? I hope so, given that the environmental destruction tied into the livestock industry is one of the greatest global problems of our time.

I have a big car. I have 3 children and 2 big dogs. We don't ever fly abroad but drive and camp instead. I consider my car to be a luxury but I drive it with consideration for others.

Unless you're driving a car that is always at full occupancy then most cars on the road are bigger than are needed but I'm guessing that's not the point you're making as you go on to talk about not fitting in parking spaces etc

However, most cars do fit in parking spaces even 4x4s, and vans, and pick-ups. I've driven all of them and most days they won't be at full occupancy but I do think it's a bit misguided to think because you see a car in the city that it hasn't been anywhere else that day where it needed more capacity (either in terms of storage or in terms of driving off road).

As drguin pointed out it's no more selfish than having a big house, lots of clothes, eating too much food - all of them impact on the environment; all of them are at the expense of what other people can have - so if you want to do something constructive as Iseeyou suggests then there are lots of charities campaigning for more equitable sharing of world resources. I'm sure they'd be delighted to channel your anger!

Ali and Maid - have you read my OP? I think there are lots of reasons to feel uncomfortable about it.

It affects other road users a great deal if your car is large. If one doesn't have a great reason for needing it to be large then I think one should be fairly embarrassed about it.

You don't live in a bubble.

I recently spent time in Rome and London. There is clearly a different mindset about cars in the two cities. Rome is full of Smart Cars, Fiat 55s and other very small cars. London is full of very large cars, I saw very, very few small cars (the children commented on this it was such an obvious difference.) Is there something about the way Romans live that means they don't need big cars? Lots of old cars there as well - original Fiat 500's were common. I live in Edinburgh and the number of small cars has ballooned in recent times, school car park no longer quite the 4x4 showroom it used to be.
We had big cars for years, now I have a very small car and the difference in terms of easy of parking and manoeuvring outweighs the inconvenience of lack of space by miles. And it's brilliant in snow compared stupid "performance" cars with wide tires and too much power.

We have a big 7 seater even though there is 5 of us, and it does come in handy for extended family days out, friends etc.

We were even more glad of it the other week when someone drove into the back of us at 30mph, I doubt we would have come out of it is so well in a little car.

tbh though Rooney I think you are living in a bubble. Or at least you are not thinking too logically. Go to a road and count the cars which are over 10 years old. You will find that most of them are what you rather widely label as "large cars". Go to a new build housing estate, which has been built on previously rural land in a wasteful manner, using loads of resources, and again count the cars sitting in driveways. How many are small ones less than 10 years old.

Then have a think about how much resources it costs to manufacture cars that last only a few years, as opposed to ones which last decades. Small cars are simply not built with the same quality as large cars, because they are less prestigious. They are built to look nice and drive well for up to 80 or 90,000 miles and then either require a lot of work to keep going or be scrapped and replaced with another new car. Most of the older cars on the road are bigger cars, and it is far less wasteful for a car to have a longer lifespan than to manufacture several smaller new ones.

Less - interesting post - I concur that there is a lot of wasteful behaviour, in ways of living, often ways that don't involve oversized vehicles.

I'm like you - I do my own transporting, rarely rely on a man to do stuff like that for me, live in doer uppers and on Sunday I drove to pick up a double drainer sink complete with pipes sticking out, and got that and the three children (one more than I had planned for due to some man letting us down!) in our car and drove us all home.

I'm not some fair weather feeble person. I've built our kitchen from scratch and our house is full of tiles, timber and tools - and no men are about.

I still dislike cars being too big for their purpose.

All the points being made about these vehicles being utilitarian are well and good. That doesn't go against what I am trying to say at all.

If you need the room, and the vehicle works for you in that way - go for it.

If it is ostentatiously large, for the SAKE of being large - then that's not on imo.

x posts.

I'm appalled that the new mini is so large - it's crazy.

And whether reasonable or not, I'll assume that if you're driving a big black 4x4 with tinted windows around our city you're either a drug dealer or some other kind of twat.

People have the technology they want, not the technology they need.

You waste your time pointlessly on the web using technology you pay for, they have 4 seats they pay to lug around with them.

Personally I would respectfully suggest you look to your own lifestyle before you decide others' are selfish.

Try being me (I am not a small man) and being told you should drive everywhere in a small car feeling uncomfortable and ruining your body - sod off.

Maid, I am almost vegetarian, and recognise that I could improve on this. I was veggie for 15 years and vegan for three of those years. It was quite difficult in this society.

Having a normal car isn't. Having a HUGE tank for no particular purpose, isn't really comparable to eating what is put in front of you for the sake of convenience to those around you.

And unless you're transporting fridges more than once a month it is more economical to rent a cheap van for a day, given lower cost to run (and lower environmental costs) over the rest of the year.

Gosh, Troglodad - did you mean to sound so offensive?

I suppose one issue is that people's "needs" change from day to day with their car and, as someone said upthread, it's not terribly economical or practical to hire something bigger periodically. But it is not unusual for people to have something bigger/heavier than they'll ever need, and 4x4s are a prime example (unless battling kangaroos etc).

Quite, Dame. I use a hired man and van to move massive stuff, usually a part load, it's usually pretty well worked out, their logistical finesse amazes me.

It affects other road users a great deal if your car is large. If one doesn't have a great reason for needing it to be large then I think one should be fairly embarrassed about it

How? This is illogical. If you have passed a driving test, you should be able to cope with all sorts of other vehicles on the road, such as buses, tractors, lorries, horseboxes and so on. A driver who is so incompetent so as to be able to cope with passing a largish car on the other side of the road is a danger to everyone.

And anyone might need to move furniture. Sure, opting out of doing anything for yourself and paying someone else to do it might be an option, but its not for everyone. I have visions of me getting a little trolley and wheeling my American style fridge freezer or plumbing bits from B&Q along the pavement for miles. Or balancing a bale of hay on my bike and pushing it the 6 miles from the supplier. Have you ever lifted a bale of hay OP? Some of us assess size of cars in terms of numbers of bales of hay or potential fridge freezers they can move, rather than importing bizarre ideas of control and grandeur into the heads of the owners.

Its kind of Soviet...

Having a larger car than you can competently park is a bug bear of mine.

I do dislike the height of 4x4s when they obscure the road but so do vans etc.

I don't get the 4x4 love so I could say I don't get it but I have a much faster car than I NEED so I'd be a hypocrite to bash the 4x4 brigade.

Rooners Quite, Dame. I use a hired man and van to move massive stuff, usually a part load, it's usually pretty well worked out, their logistical finesse amazes me

What a hassle. We just hitch our trailer onto the back of the LPG converted X5 and do it ourselves. Saves so much money.

It's my one "consumer goods" pleasure in life.

dh and I don't smoke or drink.

We're not into having an extensive wardrobe of this season's clothes, must have accessories, latest gadgets. We are not wasteful with food in our house, we recycle/upcycle/freecycle etc etc.

We haven't holidayed outside the UK for over 10 years, through choice, not lack of funds.

We give fairly generously time and money wise to charitable causes. I'm always giving lifts to people/their kids, it's not often that I'm alone in the car.

My 4 x 4 is more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly than any of the previous cars I've ever owned and judging by the league tables, more so than many average family saloon cars/hatchbacks. I have an advanced driving qualification and drive/park considerately.

I's very comfortable inside and I cover over 15,000 miles a year plus it's a joy to drive. Public transport is woefully inadequate in many parts of the country, something that many large city dwellers will never truly grasp until they've experienced the impact of it on daily life long term.

Less - it's not either/or, you know - I have a small 11 year old car still going strong, live in a 160 year old house, also still going strong. My street (in inner-city London) has a smattering of 4x4s, but in the overall area there are bloody loads of them, a depressingly large number of which are driven by women who haven't a bloody clue how big/wide they are, and are all over the place (but happy as Larry as they're all right Jack in their tank). The angriest I have ever seen DH is when, in the pissing rain, he had to get out of our car (going downhill, right of way etc etc) and reverse some stupid woman's 4x4 down the hill because she had got herself stuck in a position she should never have been had she understood several things, including how wide her fucking car was. Not the only time I, and other people I know, have witnessed stupidity like this.

I would say that ownership of these cars should be dependent on proving you can drive the damned things. I would fail, for sure.

Less, I have indeed lifted many bales of hay - can you stop assuming I never bother to lift or move anything myself?

Did you read my last post? Have you ever installed a 3 metre 40mm solid oak worktop by yourself? Including moving it? And cutting a sink hole in it? Ever built, single handedly, a walk in chicken run 5 metres by 3? In a week? From scratch?

Have you ever screeded a concrete floor alone, removed cement using a cold chisel, with a toddler watching...ever breastfed while sawing a hardwood cabinet with one hand? Well I have!

Seriously. I get that you need your truck. It isn't you I am calling selfish

I have a big car, a qashqai so not too huge, but definitely big.

It's more environmentally friendly and fuel efficient than a petrol fiesta, or a petrol meriva.

To be honest, I don't worry too much about not being able to see over the car in front. I keep my distance so can see around them if needs be, you should try that. Nor do I worry if I need to slow down a little on a tight country road to pass another larger vehicle. It adds about three seconds to my journey.

To be fair, your meriva is hardly a supermini either...

Problem is our current society revolves around spending and material goods etc. It is built on selfishness and doing for your family and not others. The answer people will give is 'I worked for my money so will buy what i want' or 'I can choose what I bloody want to drive' because people are primarily focusing on their own family and not the needs of others or the environment.

In addition you could say the same for people going abroad, throwing out more waste than they need, having a bigger house than they need etc. Society is selfish that is why. But what choices do people really have to opt out of this way of life?